Next Week's Episode - In or Out?

joybrennan wrote:

nati.cba wrote:

joybrennan wrote:

Umm, actually, the end of the 100th makes it seem like the show is becoming MORE like a soap-opera. While the acting was great it threw out 5 years of character development, growth and change. Brennan reacted like the Brennan of season 2 or 3. Certainly not the Brennan we've seen this year. Soaps toss character development and continuity out the window all the time. If you've watched from the beginning, it's starting to feel like just going around in circles. Two or three more years of writers doing plot maneuvers so that the characters don't "break" the UST is the best way to break it. People stop caring because the characters stop showing consistency in the direction of their character development.

I don't agree, again, sorry!
But I don't think this is like a soap opera, if it were, Bones would already be in Booth arms, we would have already seen her cry about a stupid jealously because a woman got him drunk and she caught them in bed, etc.

Brennan DID NOT react like the Brennan in season 2 or 3, that Brennan would have said "I don't love you back, sorry man", she'd not cry, that's for sure, she'd not said "I don't know how (to change), she'd said "I don't want to change", she'd said that relationships are stupíd and that's why she'd reject him, etc. In contrast Bones said she doesn't know how to change, the Bones in season 2 or 3 would have NEVER admitted that she couldn't do something right. And besides, behind her words you could see the message of "I know you deserve better and I don't know how to give you that".

I sustain that episode 100th finale was gorgeous and totally IN CHARACTER. Now we have to see Brennan work on her feelings before putting them in the table, like Booth did. It'd be unfair if they'd miss this part in the show. Maybe it came a little bit too late, but it's something we have to go through before any relationship between them could start.

And why do you think the characters stopped showing consistency? When? We know Bones, her reaction was totally in character. And Booth's as well. He put his feelings in the table, she didn't want them, so he decided he'd move on. He won't beg, but he won't walk away either. That's at least the Booth and Brennan that I've grown to know in the series.

That's at least, my opinion.

Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. However, some facts: In season two, Brennan gets involved with Sully. Sully says he’s in love with her, and while I don’t think she was in love with him, there’s enough for her to CONSIDER going away with him. Season THREE is where Booth gives his whole “making love” speech – and BRENNAN agrees with him. She’s already started shifting her thoughts about relationships. A Brennan coming from a season three place certainly wouldn’t be saying relationships are stupid. She WOULD probably say she didn’t think she could do one.

In season FOUR, we open up in London, where Brennan states that pure logic can be dangerous and that in order to be successful, a scientist needs more than logic. The episode ends with Brennan NOT sleeping with the guy she finds attractive – even though he uses a logical argument as to why they should. Brennan agrees it’s logical – but chooses not to upset Booth – who doesn’t like the guy. They come back and Brennan starts dating two guys, one for sex and one for intellectual simulation. By the end of the episode, she is thinking that perhaps monogamy is best for sexual relationships, but she’s unsure if she’d ever manage it. Booth tells her, “there’s a perfect guy out there for you, you just have to be open to it.” He then takes her out to dinner. We then go to the episode where everyone is super-smart and rational, a place Brennan had years before applied to for an internship. Everyone is sleeping with everyone else – including the engaged Director. Booth is appalled; Brennan sees the logic in the behavior. The Director at one-point states, “love is beneath him.” The reason this episode is important? When the director hits on her, she turns him down flat. She may understand the logic in the behavior – but it’s not what she WANTS anymore. After that, we’re got the Cinderella in the Cardboard, Brennan admits to being jealous of ALL of her colleagues because they believe in true love, and she wants to. She wants to know what it’s like. Booth tells her she will…someday. In “the Girl in the Mask” Brennan is contemplating whether loving someone is worth it. She admits her fear to Booth, who promptly explains why it is – he talks about Parker. TWO episodes later, Brennan decides SHE wants a child. Apparently, she took Booth’s statement literally. Loving someone – a child – is worth it. Then there’s the whole brain tumor thing. Brennan writes a story about being in love with/and married to Booth. In the story, she says, “love gives you wings – to fly.” Then she deletes it. She’s just not ready to deal. ALL of this is SEASON FOUR. We haven’t even gone into five yet.

FIVE opens up with the completely psychic thing. Brennan is completely skeptical, until Avalon does a reading that says Brennan doesn’t know how anyone can love her, but that “He knows the truth of her and is dazzled by it.” This shakes her up. Clearly, it’s the question on her mind, and the answer she wants to believe… “Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood” Brennan has no problem getting more involved with Booth and Parker. She gives them a key to her building so that Parker and Booth can use the pool. “Night at the Bones Museum” she goes out with Hacker – because she wants sex. However, when Booth makes it clear to her how special their relationship is by letting her know he tells her things he tells no one else, she dumps Hacker as her date to the museum and takes Booth. She paraphrases Booth’s words to her, “What happens between us is ours, isn’t that what you said.” They almost kiss. There’s more in season five, but let me just jump to the point where Brennan tells Booth, Jared, and Jared’s fiancé that because of Booth, she now believes that love is possible.

ALL of this between seasons 2-5, and then she says she doesn’t want to try having a relationship, that she’s too much of a scientist – (yet, she’s not enough of one to date the Lab Director in season 4.) She can’t change. SHE HAS CHANGED. Therefore, I stand by assertion. The Brennan in the 100th is coming out of seasons two and three – in my opinion.

nati.cba wrote:

joybrennan wrote:



Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. However, some facts: In season two, Brennan gets involved with Sully. Sully says he’s in love with her, and while I don’t think she was in love with him, there’s enough for her to CONSIDER going away with him. Season THREE is where Booth gives his whole “making love” speech – and BRENNAN agrees with him. She’s already started shifting her thoughts about relationships. A Brennan coming from a season three place certainly wouldn’t be saying relationships are stupid. She WOULD probably say she didn’t think she could do one.

In season FOUR, we open up in London, where Brennan states that pure logic can be dangerous and that in order to be successful, a scientist needs more than logic. The episode ends with Brennan NOT sleeping with the guy she finds attractive – even though he uses a logical argument as to why they should. Brennan agrees it’s logical – but chooses not to upset Booth – who doesn’t like the guy. They come back and Brennan starts dating two guys, one for sex and one for intellectual simulation. By the end of the episode, she is thinking that perhaps monogamy is best for sexual relationships, but she’s unsure if she’d ever manage it. Booth tells her, “there’s a perfect guy out there for you, you just have to be open to it.” He then takes her out to dinner. We then go to the episode where everyone is super-smart and rational, a place Brennan had years before applied to for an internship. Everyone is sleeping with everyone else – including the engaged Director. Booth is appalled; Brennan sees the logic in the behavior. The Director at one-point states, “love is beneath him.” The reason this episode is important? When the director hits on her, she turns him down flat. She may understand the logic in the behavior – but it’s not what she WANTS anymore. After that, we’re got the Cinderella in the Cardboard, Brennan admits to being jealous of ALL of her colleagues because they believe in true love, and she wants to. She wants to know what it’s like. Booth tells her she will…someday. In “the Girl in the Mask” Brennan is contemplating whether loving someone is worth it. She admits her fear to Booth, who promptly explains why it is – he talks about Parker. TWO episodes later, Brennan decides SHE wants a child. Apparently, she took Booth’s statement literally. Loving someone – a child – is worth it. Then there’s the whole brain tumor thing. Brennan writes a story about being in love with/and married to Booth. In the story, she says, “love gives you wings – to fly.” Then she deletes it. She’s just not ready to deal. ALL of this is SEASON FOUR. We haven’t even gone into five yet.

FIVE opens up with the completely psychic thing. Brennan is completely skeptical, until Avalon does a reading that says Brennan doesn’t know how anyone can love her, but that “He knows the truth of her and is dazzled by it.” This shakes her up. Clearly, it’s the question on her mind, and the answer she wants to believe… “Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood” Brennan has no problem getting more involved with Booth and Parker. She gives them a key to her building so that Parker and Booth can use the pool. “Night at the Bones Museum” she goes out with Hacker – because she wants sex. However, when Booth makes it clear to her how special their relationship is by letting her know he tells her things he tells no one else, she dumps Hacker as her date to the museum and takes Booth. She paraphrases Booth’s words to her, “What happens between us is ours, isn’t that what you said.” They almost kiss. There’s more in season five, but let me just jump to the point where Brennan tells Booth, Jared, and Jared’s fiancé that because of Booth, she now believes that love is possible.

ALL of this between seasons 2-5, and then she says she doesn’t want to try having a relationship, that she’s too much of a scientist – (yet, she’s not enough of one to date the Lab Director in season 4.) She can’t change. SHE HAS CHANGED. Therefore, I stand by assertion. The Brennan in the 100th is coming out of seasons two and three – in my opinion.

WOW that was a piece of analysis and I have to thank you for that. I loved reading it! Seriously. It was very accurate and ironically, you used a the logic to demonstrate your statement. Congrats for that, I don't think I'd be capable of such a speech.

I agree with you that Brennan has come a long way and that she's very different from the Brennan in season 1. And I agree with all the development that you've described - well, those are facts, not something I should agree with, anyway, you get my point, I guess.

HOWEVER, I think that what scares Brennan the most is to try this new thing for her - loving and being loved - with Booth. Why? Because he's her best friend, a constant in her life for the last 5 years, what if it goes wrong? What if there's no turning back? As Booth said in the season 5 premiere, "sometimes you have to be happy with second best" (I'm paraphrasing here, but it was something like that). In addition, she's scared of hurting him, of not being what he wants, what he deserves.
And I think that somehow, she's gonna try to go back to what they had before, even if that means being a "cold fish" regarding what happened in 100th episode last scene.

Although I'M NOT FOND OF HER REACTION in this last episode and the promo of 5x18, I can understand her, somehow. I don't think she's given too many steps back, and I'm hopeful that all this will be solved within the next episodes.

I want to be clear on this: I get your point and I agree with almost everything you've said. However, I don't dislike what the writers have decided to give us, I can take it and I can buy it (not for too long, though), I can find the logics behind their story, and all I can hope is this part is necessary for them to get B&B together, eventually, any time soon.

nati.cba wrote:
HOWEVER, I think that what scares Brennan the most is to try this new thing for her - loving and being loved - with Booth. Why? Because he's her best friend, a constant in her life for the last 5 years, what if it goes wrong? What if there's no turning back? As Booth said in the season 5 premiere, "sometimes you have to be happy with second best" (I'm paraphrasing here, but it was something like that). In addition, she's scared of hurting him, of not being what he wants, what he deserves.
And I think that somehow, she's gonna try to go back to what they had before, even if that means being a "cold fish" regarding what happened in 100th episode last scene.

heirofloki wrote:

nati.cba wrote:
HOWEVER, I think that what scares Brennan the most is to try this new thing for her - loving and being loved - with Booth. Why? Because he's her best friend, a constant in her life for the last 5 years, what if it goes wrong? What if there's no turning back? As Booth said in the season 5 premiere, "sometimes you have to be happy with second best" (I'm paraphrasing here, but it was something like that). In addition, she's scared of hurting him, of not being what he wants, what he deserves.
And I think that somehow, she's gonna try to go back to what they had before, even if that means being a "cold fish" regarding what happened in 100th episode last scene.

I can only agree vehemently. Somethings are scarier than getting shot at, and the gravedigger, and the red army all rolled into one. Also, her reaction is 100% Brennan. I don't know why people expect her to be remorseful or regretful or even openly sad. She's not like that. Hell, I'm not Brennan (that socially inept) but in her position, I'd be trying to make things as normal as possible. She's just socially dumb, and thus asks questions like "is this too difficult for you" that make any normal human wanna trash the telly. But that's also very Brennan.

treble21 wrote:I think people are focusing way too much on the " I can't change I'm a scientist" part of Brennan's speech, and waaay too little on the " I'm protecting you" aspect of it. JMO

joybrennan wrote:
Thanks for the acknowledgment I also get that the whole thing HAS to scare her. I just really have a hard time buying she'd shut down the idea so completely. Voice her fears - absolutely. Basically say there's no way in hell - no.

joybrennan wrote:For me, Brennan's reaction feels like a contrived plot device, not a character choice. HOWEVER, they say great actors can make a bad script tolerable. Emily and David certainly proved that. I really felt the pain in that scene - I BELIEVED them - even as part of my brain was going, "this makes no sense!" I actually REALLY loved this episode until the last five minutes.

joybrennan wrote:So much of it made the characters' history that much clearer - even with the continuity issues of Cam and the DA. Now, Brennan's line in the pilot - the one where Booth's got her pressed up against the wall and she goes, "did you plan this?" isn't just funny, it is SOOO logical a thought!

joybrennan wrote:Thus, even though I am skipping the whole Catfish - Hacker thing, ( ) I'm sticking through the rest of the season. I really hope you are right about things getting back on track Hopeful this is just a small derailment as opposed to the complete train-wreck () that many fans are feeling is about to occur.

nati.cba wrote:Uf I just came across this vid and wanted to share it I didn't know where to put it so I decided to do it here.

Hope you like it. Made me cry

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6F_Q776FQ0][Only admins are allowed to see this link]

nati.cba wrote:Ok people are we watching the same show? It's not a soap opera for God's sake!!! It's about their RELATIONSHIP yeah yeah but no way they're giving us a fluffy soap opera-like story.
Arggg I feel frustrated, how come you don't see the development in the characters and HOW WHAT'S HAPPENING MAKES SENSE? Until now all we had was a nice friendship (first two seasons) that grew into something "more than partners" (following two seasons), until it was obvious that both of them were totally in love with each other (since mid of season 4 more or less). This season we had a lot of B&B moments, sweet but that was all. No talking, no feelings exposed. Now feelings are exposed but she's BONES, not a romantic soap opera character that's more than half the show crying for her love. And that will EASILY say yes at Booth's first attempt to claim her heart! Therefore, let's be patient. We still need Bones to grow, Booth to make some mistakes, both to realize that they belong together, and finally get together. If it happened quickly and easily it'd be so boring... I know that for those who've been watching the series since the very beginning it feels slow frustrating somehow but that's the way it is. Brennan is emotionally and socially immature and it's not from one day to the other that she'll admit she believes in love and then fall in Booth's arms.
Right?

And besides, if the ratings drop, nothing will change in terms of the story. The episodes are written and edited, the show is gonna go on for another 2 or 3 seasons, and HH will do whatever he wants in the end.

Enjoy the show people, there're great stories and amazing acting.

joybrennan wrote:

nati.cba wrote:Ok people are we watching the same show? It's not a soap opera for God's sake!!! It's about their RELATIONSHIP yeah yeah but no way they're giving us a fluffy soap opera-like story.
Arggg I feel frustrated, how come you don't see the development in the characters and HOW WHAT'S HAPPENING MAKES SENSE? Until now all we had was a nice friendship (first two seasons) that grew into something "more than partners" (following two seasons), until it was obvious that both of them were totally in love with each other (since mid of season 4 more or less). This season we had a lot of B&B moments, sweet but that was all. No talking, no feelings exposed. Now feelings are exposed but she's BONES, not a romantic soap opera character that's more than half the show crying for her love. And that will EASILY say yes at Booth's first attempt to claim her heart! Therefore, let's be patient. We still need Bones to grow, Booth to make some mistakes, both to realize that they belong together, and finally get together. If it happened quickly and easily it'd be so boring... I know that for those who've been watching the series since the very beginning it feels slow frustrating somehow but that's the way it is. Brennan is emotionally and socially immature and it's not from one day to the other that she'll admit she believes in love and then fall in Booth's arms.
Right?

And besides, if the ratings drop, nothing will change in terms of the story. The episodes are written and edited, the show is gonna go on for another 2 or 3 seasons, and HH will do whatever he wants in the end.

Enjoy the show people, there're great stories and amazing acting.

Umm, actually, the end of the 100th makes it seem like the show is becoming MORE like a soap-opera. While the acting was great it threw out 5 years of character development, growth and change. Brennan reacted like the Brennan of season 2 or 3. Certainly not the Brennan we've seen this year. Soaps toss character development and continuity out the window all the time. If you've watched from the beginning, it's starting to feel like just going around in circles. Two or three more years of writers doing plot maneuvers so that the characters don't "break" the UST is the best way to break it. People stop caring because the characters stop showing consistency in the direction of their character development.

jcn747 wrote:
Sorry but i really have to disagree. Just because she said no does not mean she has not developed. She said no to protect Booth, not herself. Old Bones would have could she would have said that she is afraid of being hurt, but this time she is afraid for Booth, it is totally different. And on top of this she will always be afraid, that is what a fear is, i mean i am afraid of spiders, i could learn to deal with spiders but i will always be afraid of them. Also she believes in love, she believes in so many things and she has become more open, and yes she has developed, she was put in the spot and she WAS afraid for Booth, and maybe a bit for herself, but that does not mean in any way that she has not developed. Another thing, bones has a tendency to not see how far she has come, and that can contribute to her fear, because she cant see her personal development.

Also not to be mean or anything like that, but where or when did she indicate she was ready for a relationship, because from what i have seen, she has never indicated that she is ready for that yet. I think she understands the idea and accepts it, but she is not ready to do it herself, so i dont see how it is destroying the development if non were made.

heirofloki wrote:

jcn747 wrote:
Sorry but i really have to disagree. Just because she said no does not mean she has not developed. She said no to protect Booth, not herself. Old Bones would have could she would have said that she is afraid of being hurt, but this time she is afraid for Booth, it is totally different. And on top of this she will always be afraid, that is what a fear is, i mean i am afraid of spiders, i could learn to deal with spiders but i will always be afraid of them. Also she believes in love, she believes in so many things and she has become more open, and yes she has developed, she was put in the spot and she WAS afraid for Booth, and maybe a bit for herself, but that does not mean in any way that she has not developed. Another thing, bones has a tendency to not see how far she has come, and that can contribute to her fear, because she cant see her personal development.

Also not to be mean or anything like that, but where or when did she indicate she was ready for a relationship, because from what i have seen, she has never indicated that she is ready for that yet. I think she understands the idea and accepts it, but she is not ready to do it herself, so i dont see how it is destroying the development if non were made.

THIS THIS THIS!! Omg, this ^ so very much. *gives you a hug for being articulate*

heirofloki wrote:

jcn747 wrote:
Sorry but i really have to disagree. Just because she said no does not mean she has not developed. She said no to protect Booth, not herself. Old Bones would have could she would have said that she is afraid of being hurt, but this time she is afraid for Booth, it is totally different. And on top of this she will always be afraid, that is what a fear is, i mean i am afraid of spiders, i could learn to deal with spiders but i will always be afraid of them. Also she believes in love, she believes in so many things and she has become more open, and yes she has developed, she was put in the spot and she WAS afraid for Booth, and maybe a bit for herself, but that does not mean in any way that she has not developed. Another thing, bones has a tendency to not see how far she has come, and that can contribute to her fear, because she cant see her personal development.

Also not to be mean or anything like that, but where or when did she indicate she was ready for a relationship, because from what i have seen, she has never indicated that she is ready for that yet. I think she understands the idea and accepts it, but she is not ready to do it herself, so i dont see how it is destroying the development if non were made.

THIS THIS THIS!! Omg, this ^ so very much. *gives you a hug for being articulate*

SnoopGirl wrote:Still in!

boneslady29 wrote:

SnoopGirl wrote:Still in!

im with snoop im still in

though i dnt agree with it doesnt mean i aint gonna watch it

jcn747 wrote:

joybrennan wrote:

nati.cba wrote:Ok people are we watching the same show? It's not a soap opera for God's sake!!! It's about their RELATIONSHIP yeah yeah but no way they're giving us a fluffy soap opera-like story.
Arggg I feel frustrated, how come you don't see the development in the characters and HOW WHAT'S HAPPENING MAKES SENSE? Until now all we had was a nice friendship (first two seasons) that grew into something "more than partners" (following two seasons), until it was obvious that both of them were totally in love with each other (since mid of season 4 more or less). This season we had a lot of B&B moments, sweet but that was all. No talking, no feelings exposed. Now feelings are exposed but she's BONES, not a romantic soap opera character that's more than half the show crying for her love. And that will EASILY say yes at Booth's first attempt to claim her heart! Therefore, let's be patient. We still need Bones to grow, Booth to make some mistakes, both to realize that they belong together, and finally get together. If it happened quickly and easily it'd be so boring... I know that for those who've been watching the series since the very beginning it feels slow frustrating somehow but that's the way it is. Brennan is emotionally and socially immature and it's not from one day to the other that she'll admit she believes in love and then fall in Booth's arms.
Right?

And besides, if the ratings drop, nothing will change in terms of the story. The episodes are written and edited, the show is gonna go on for another 2 or 3 seasons, and HH will do whatever he wants in the end.

Enjoy the show people, there're great stories and amazing acting.

Umm, actually, the end of the 100th makes it seem like the show is becoming MORE like a soap-opera. While the acting was great it threw out 5 years of character development, growth and change. Brennan reacted like the Brennan of season 2 or 3. Certainly not the Brennan we've seen this year. Soaps toss character development and continuity out the window all the time. If you've watched from the beginning, it's starting to feel like just going around in circles. Two or three more years of writers doing plot maneuvers so that the characters don't "break" the UST is the best way to break it. People stop caring because the characters stop showing consistency in the direction of their character development.

Sorry but i really have to disagree. Just because she said no does not mean she has not developed. She said no to protect Booth, not herself. Old Bones would have could she would have said that she is afraid of being hurt, but this time she is afraid for Booth, it is totally different. And on top of this she will always be afraid, that is what a fear is, i mean i am afraid of spiders, i could learn to deal with spiders but i will always be afraid of them. Also she believes in love, she believes in so many things and she has become more open, and yes she has developed, she was put in the spot and she WAS afraid for Booth, and maybe a bit for herself, but that does not mean in any way that she has not developed. Another thing, bones has a tendency to not see how far she has come, and that can contribute to her fear, because she cant see her personal development.

Also not to be mean or anything like that, but where or when did she indicate she was ready for a relationship, because from what i have seen, she has never indicated that she is ready for that yet. I think she understands the idea and accepts it, but she is not ready to do it herself, so i dont see how it is destroying the development if non were made.

sleepless wrote:ok, I don't think Jared counts. You know, Brennan gets so much crap for sleeping around, but since the pilot, Booth has slept with more women.

Booth: Tessa, Cam, Rebecca (we KNOW he's had sex with all of them)

Brennan: Sully, Mark (These are the only two men that we know Brennan's slept with in the last 5 years. Unless I'm forgetting someone)

Yeah, maybe she's gone on more dates than Booth, but it's not like she's sleeping around.

I am def IN. It would take a pretty grievous error for me to stop watching all together. I say bring on Catherine! Although I will be upset if Booth has sex with her or Brennan has sex with Hacker, but I don't think it's going to happen