Press Release 5/20 "The Beginning in the End"

THX1138 wrote:Once and for all THERE.IS.NO.MOONLIGHTING.CURSE!

First of all, David and Maddie had sex in the middle of the season and the shows ratings went UP not down afterwards. Second the season following the show became problematic not because of them having sex, but because Cybill Shepherd was off most of the season being pregnant and giving birth to her child, and Bruce Willis was shooting a movie - hard to have any sort of sexual chemistry, let alone UST, when the stars of the show aren't around. Finally what killed the show wasn't David and Maddie getting married, it was the show runners' attempt to "revive" the show by marrying her off to another guy without even giving a reason - she married him on impulse even though it's obvious she's still in love with David. Add in the fact that Bruce Willis and Cybill Shepherd had a contentuous relationship at best, and the show is definitely NO BONES.

So there is no Moonlighting Curse, what there is, is a lot of irrational people in Hollywood who insist on treating audiences today as if they're the same as they were 25 years ago - if that was true we'd all be watching "Father Knows Best - The Golden Years" and "Leave it to Beaver, Again!".

Sorry, raw nerve there. The fact that HH says he doesn't believe in the curse but still acts and talks like he does annoys me to no end. Modern audiences are far more sophisticated and we won't bolt just because they hook-up. In fact we might just bolt if they don't. I'm not going to sit through another JAG, no more "last 15 minutes of the last episode" for me, he either moves them forward or he starts looking for another reason to keep me here. My time is limited, I don't need this crap.


RM


Man that felt good.

True, what killed Moonlighting was the behind the scenes power struggle going on between Shepherd and show creator Glenn Gordon Caron. Shepherd originally wanted out of the show when she realized that audience reaction was more positive to BW’s character than her own, but the network would not let her out of her contract. Then she wanted the character changed in response to that, which was something that show creator could and would not agree to because it would have changed the basic structure of the show. (Could you imagine what would have happened if the actor playing Oscar in the Odd Couple wanted the producers to make him more neat because he thought the audience liked Felix better?)When she became pregnant she used that to ban Caron from the show and to refuse to have scenes with Willis. The writers had to come up with a situation that had her out of town in order to keep her in the show during her pregnancy at all. After her pregnancy she had to go back to working with Willis, but she, along with another of the shows writers, were able to oust Caron. That other writer was put in charge, but unfortunately his main qualification for the job was that he was Shepherd's creature and not that he was particular talented; hence the end of the show.

I agree with you that the concept of the characters can’t have sex or it will ruin the show is passé. Take Burn Notice for example. What isn’t passé is that you still have to have an obstacle in the way to keep the two from being in a fully committed relationship. Something Burn Notice also realizes and provides for. Will the part of Michael that was and still is a spy drive he and Fi apart in the end? It keeps the tension going between the characters. It keeps the possibility that in the end there is something that Micheal and Fi may not be able to overcome. That there still might not be a happily ever after for them. So while it’s silly today to have sex be the obstacle to maintain the tension – HH does have to find something that they need to continue to struggle with. Something that still keeps that completely happy ending in question.

And there arent's struggles in marriage?

What marriage am I in? It is keeping me on the edge of my seat.

Whoever came up with the idea that marriage was a happy ending?

I wonder about this whole 'not getting together' thing.
Just an example: look at "The Closer" - Fritz and Brenda got together in the episode 1x05 (1st season, for goodness' sake!), they were together durinng all seasons, got married by the end of season 4, the season 5 ratings were just as good as before - and the next season starts in 2 month.

Whoever came up with the idea that marriage was a happy ending?

It is a beginning, not an ending! And if well done, this plot can bring another x seasons of good and interesting tension and sparks.

a_rangergrl2 wrote:

THX1138 wrote:Once and for all THERE.IS.NO.MOONLIGHTING.CURSE!

First of all, David and Maddie had sex in the middle of the season and the shows ratings went UP not down afterwards. Second the season following the show became problematic not because of them having sex, but because Cybill Shepherd was off most of the season being pregnant and giving birth to her child, and Bruce Willis was shooting a movie - hard to have any sort of sexual chemistry, let alone UST, when the stars of the show aren't around. Finally what killed the show wasn't David and Maddie getting married, it was the show runners' attempt to "revive" the show by marrying her off to another guy without even giving a reason - she married him on impulse even though it's obvious she's still in love with David. Add in the fact that Bruce Willis and Cybill Shepherd had a contentuous relationship at best, and the show is definitely NO BONES.

So there is no Moonlighting Curse, what there is, is a lot of irrational people in Hollywood who insist on treating audiences today as if they're the same as they were 25 years ago - if that was true we'd all be watching "Father Knows Best - The Golden Years" and "Leave it to Beaver, Again!".

Sorry, raw nerve there. The fact that HH says he doesn't believe in the curse but still acts and talks like he does annoys me to no end. Modern audiences are far more sophisticated and we won't bolt just because they hook-up. In fact we might just bolt if they don't. I'm not going to sit through another JAG, no more "last 15 minutes of the last episode" for me, he either moves them forward or he starts looking for another reason to keep me here. My time is limited, I don't need this crap.


RM


Man that felt good.

True, what killed Moonlighting was the behind the scenes power struggle going on between Shepherd and show creator Glenn Gordon Caron. Shepherd originally wanted out of the show when she realized that audience reaction was more positive to BW’s character than her own, but the network would not let her out of her contract. Then she wanted the character changed in response to that, which was something that show creator could and would not agree to because it would have changed the basic structure of the show. (Could you imagine what would have happened if the actor playing Oscar in the Odd Couple wanted the producers to make him more neat because he thought the audience liked Felix better?)When she became pregnant she used that to ban Caron from the show and to refuse to have scenes with Willis. The writers had to come up with a situation that had her out of town in order to keep her in the show during her pregnancy at all. After her pregnancy she had to go back to working with Willis, but she, along with another of the shows writers, were able to oust Caron. That other writer was put in charge, but unfortunately his main qualification for the job was that he was Shepherd's creature and not that he was particular talented; hence the end of the show.

I agree with you that the concept of the characters can’t have sex or it will ruin the show is passé. Take Burn Notice for example. What isn’t passé is that you still have to have an obstacle in the way to keep the two from being in a fully committed relationship. Something Burn Notice also realizes and provides for. Will the part of Michael that was and still is a spy drive he and Fi apart in the end? It keeps the tension going between the characters. It keeps the possibility that in the end there is something that Micheal and Fi may not be able to overcome. That there still might not be a happily ever after for them. So while it’s silly today to have sex be the obstacle to maintain the tension – HH does have to find something that they need to continue to struggle with. Something that still keeps that completely happy ending in question.

I totally agree with you guys! ( wow, I had a Sweets moment. lol) I mentioned this recently on a thread about my anti-Moonlighting curse. Mulder/Scully IMO wasn't because of them coming together but because DD practically left the show, working only a couple epps here & there. Had DD been there it would've made a HUGE difference! I have said it before though; B/B have a unique chemistry because they have it on & off screen. This makes their characters love & friendship genuine, not forced or pretended.

L

a_rangergrl2 wrote:

thatgirl61 wrote:The time of the clocks combined equals 99 (i dont know if that has any significance)
Also Im watching The End in the Begining now and I just realized what Booth said to Brennan in bed in the begining of this episode.Brennan asks Booth if he loves her and Booth says yea Do I want to prove it to u" not Do YOU want me to prove it to you . Again I dont know if this has any signifiance bt i just thought it should be mentioned.

That is so cool! I did pick up on the "do I want to prove it to you" from the first viewing but never would have gotten that the clocks times add up to 99. But you know, it makes perfect sense. Since in 100 he answers his own question from that scene.

Wow - I didn't pick up on that at all! If that's what he said, here's a time warp moment. What if the FIRST time they make love Brennan is listing all the reasons Booth can't love her,and that love can't be proved. Booth says something like "Do I ever want to prove you wrong, I wanna prove just how much I love you" - and they end up in bed. Thus whenever Booth says "do I wanna prove it to you?" It's their special code for sex. Which would make last year's finale a flash forward.

I just finished watching THE END IN THE BEGINING again and Booth definetly said Do I want to prove it to you.And IMO I think it was said on purpose.Also everyone on the show kept mentioning something about the math or do the math or thats the math.I believe the math they are talking about ,is what you would or wouldnt do for the one you love

thatgirl61 wrote:I just finished watching THE END IN THE BEGINING again and Booth definetly said Do I want to prove it to you.And IMO I think it was said on purpose.Also everyone on the show kept mentioning something about the math or do the math or thats the math.I believe the math they are talking about ,is what you would or wouldnt do for the one you love

Just rewatched cause I did not recall this, and I'm sorry but I so disagree, DB says do ya want me to prove it to you ? ( the ya or you is kinda mumbled but he very clearly says the word me) . the subtitles on the dvd say that and so does the closed captioning on the tv ( Well they say "do you want me to prove it to you", but if it was meant to be a deliberate hint, it would have been in the subtitles) . Also Do I want to prove it to you? makes absolutely no sense in the context of the scene.

I knew it didnt make sense bt I listened to it about 20 times and thats what I thought I heard .I tried to put my tv on the closed caption bt I was clueless.Thxs for setting it straight.

Wow I just listened again 6 more times and while Im sure ur right he really is not speaking clearly

empiricist wrote:And there arent's struggles in marriage?

What marriage am I in? It is keeping me on the edge of my seat.

Whoever came up with the idea that marriage was a happy ending?

Ha! you are so right!!

I dont need marriage. I just need them to get it on and admit that they love each other. Marriage can make the sexual tention subside.I want them to openly show their feelings and build their relationship up in season 6 (hot and steamy love) Marriage can be in season 7 .

I hate to say this, because I so want to see it, but as long as HH is involved,we are NEVER going to get a hot and steamy love scene between BB. Other characters maybe, but not BB.

I don't know. Season 4 finale was pretty hot and steamy. The first kiss in the 100th was very satisfying. Just throw in a few more like those and I'll be happy.

I assume, it is more or less a matter of taste.
For my taste, all the wanna-be sex scenes in Bones were very tame. VERY. But surely better those than nothing at all.

Honestly it fits the characters. Booth and the Kama Sutra somehow just don't compute together. Personally I really don't want to watch B&B try to get their page 187 on. Romance is more interesting than gymnastics because it's the 'making love' part rather than the 'having sex' part that is to my viewer's taste.

Beliskner wrote:1hockeymom33: Will B&B shippers like the finale?
Marisa Roffman: There are some good moments.

why does this answer NOT satisfy me ;(

I'd rather have a REALLY good moment, even if they go apart for a while

Marisa answer does not satisfy me either

If they have a really, really good moment and then have to separate, I would be happy with the season finale.

I so addicted to spoilers that the lack of them for this finale is driving me crazy. Is it usually for no spoilers this close to the finale. Maybe after 21 episode, we will be getting some more.

elyon wrote:Honestly it fits the characters. Booth and the Kama Sutra somehow just don't compute together. Personally I really don't want to watch B&B try to get their page 187 on. Romance is more interesting than gymnastics because it's the 'making love' part rather than the 'having sex' part that is to my viewer's taste.

But we didn't see any 'making love' either. As I said, it all was very tame. And short.
(And Booth and the Kama Sutra... well, you got my interest here! )

There are some new HQ promo pics for season finale. I didn't see the ones with Billy Gibbons yet. (But maybe I overslept everything and it's all old news... ). Anyway, here you are: [Only admins are allowed to see this link]

All I know is that "do you love me?" "Want me to prove it to you?" are my favorite lines of bones of all time. I don't care if it's a dream or not. It so clearly fits into what is going on right now. Brennan doesn't really believe anyone could ever really love the real her. Booth perhaps doesn't believe that brennan really loves him because like he told gordon gordon (i'd know if she loved me) So those words could come back up and fit VERY well into the finale in some way. I feel like it would be brennan asking him....but I guess it depends what goes down in this and the finale.

The "want me to prove it to you?" Also ties back into booth's talk about "making love." He proves to brennan he loves her by MAKING love. I don't see us getting that lucky in the finale. lol I could see season 6 being all about one of them proving to the other they are in it to win it or something but just pointing out that line is a little shout out to booth's talk about not having sex but making love.

192630 wrote:

Beliskner wrote:1hockeymom33: Will B&B shippers like the finale?
Marisa Roffman: There are some good moments.

why does this answer NOT satisfy me ;(

I'd rather have a REALLY good moment, even if they go apart for a while

Marisa answer does not satisfy me either

If they have a really, really good moment and then have to separate, I would be happy with the season finale.

I so addicted to spoilers that the lack of them for this finale is driving me crazy. Is it usually for no spoilers this close to the finale. Maybe after 21 episode, we will be getting some more.

Marisa is not going to spoil anything major happening in the season finale. She was one of the most vocally appalled that that last scene in 100 got leaked.

Actually the Department of Defense could take security lessons from the PTB handling of the finale. Which is killing me, but I think is ultimately very promising.

I'm new here and I've been reading everything you guys have to say about the upcoming episodes. You all have really gotten to me to start thinking. From what Hart has said something happens that drives Booth/Brennan apart in the finale ... which I'm thinking is the part David referred to as being "hard to film." BUT, it also seems like Hart does want to keep the shippers happy, at least partially.

So, does anyone else think it would be plausible that in the gravedigger trial ep, that Booth and Brennan have sex? (Or at least come really close to having sex and then Brennan changing her mind.) Ok, now, don't get me wrong ... I don't think they'd be really "getting them together" -- but perhaps that could be the big change. It would certainly be enough to make Bones wanna run away in the finale. Then they can come back next season and spend the year trying to deal with the fall out.

One thing that is really scaring me about all the spoilers and everything we're hearing is the talk that "this affects everybody" "things change for everyone." I don't wanna see the basic structure of the show change. I still want to see Booth and Bones working together solving cases with the Squint Squad behind them, and Sweets analyzing them.

And I also have an idea that they could initially bring them together by having Booth convince Bones that their relationship is just "casual." Because she's comfortable with casual sex but terrified of really falling in love. (Even though she already has.) Everyone around them, including Booth would know that the relationship was anything but casual, but they'd allow Brennan to be in denial about it just enough so that it "worked." I could see Cam and Angela sharing a smirk about the topic. Kinda like in the early days when Booth would always ignore Zack, not conventional, but it worked for them. LOL

bailey wrote:I'm new here and I've been reading everything you guys have to say about the upcoming episodes. You all have really gotten to me to start thinking. From what Hart has said something happens that drives Booth/Brennan apart in the finale ... which I'm thinking is the part David referred to as being "hard to film." BUT, it also seems like Hart does want to keep the shippers happy, at least partially.

So, does anyone else think it would be plausible that in the gravedigger trial ep, that Booth and Brennan have sex? (Or at least come really close to having sex and then Brennan changing her mind.) Ok, now, don't get me wrong ... I don't think they'd be really "getting them together" -- but perhaps that could be the big change. It would certainly be enough to make Bones wanna run away in the finale. Then they can come back next season and spend the year trying to deal with the fall out.

One thing that is really scaring me about all the spoilers and everything we're hearing is the talk that "this affects everybody" "things change for everyone." I don't wanna see the basic structure of the show change. I still want to see Booth and Bones working together solving cases with the Squint Squad behind them, and Sweets analyzing them.

And I also have an idea that they could initially bring them together by having Booth convince Bones that their relationship is just "casual." Because she's comfortable with casual sex but terrified of really falling in love. (Even though she already has.) Everyone around them, including Booth would know that the relationship was anything but casual, but they'd allow Brennan to be in denial about it just enough so that it "worked." I could see Cam and Angela sharing a smirk about the topic. Kinda like in the early days when Booth would always ignore Zack, not conventional, but it worked for them. LOL

Welcome to the Board!!

I think a "guy" hug is the best we are going to get in the upcoming episode, I don't think there will be any sex involved. Even Brennan's dream could scare her enough to run off, not scared that Booth will drown, but scared in that she realizes how much she cares about him.

I don't think they would have enough budgeted to change the structure entirely. I sometimes think it would be kind of refreshing if they changed up the show a bit.

I think what Brennan and Booth already have is a casual relationship. I'm not sure if there is such thing as casual sex between Brennan and Booth. However you know how they are always saying it's a "guy" hug (implying hug between two guys, which I guess is ok), well maybe there is such thing as "guy" sex (sounds like gay sex doesn't it?, maybe this would be ok too..ha ha.. lol)

ksnsd wrote: However you know how they are always saying it's a "guy" hug (implying hug between two guys, which I guess is ok), well maybe there is such thing as "guy" sex (sounds like gay sex doesn't it?, maybe this would be ok too..ha ha.. lol)

Oh my... You do have ideas!!!!! [Only admins are allowed to see this image]

ksnsd wrote:

Welcome to the Board!!

I think a "guy" hug is the best we are going to get in the upcoming episode, I don't think there will be any sex involved. Even Brennan's dream could scare her enough to run off, not scared that Booth will drown, but scared in that she realizes how much she cares about him.

I don't think they would have enough budgeted to change the structure entirely. I sometimes think it would be kind of refreshing if they changed up the show a bit.

I think what Brennan and Booth already have is a casual relationship. I'm not sure if there is such thing as casual sex between Brennan and Booth. However you know how they are always saying it's a "guy" hug (implying hug between two guys, which I guess is ok), well maybe there is such thing as "guy" sex (sounds like gay sex doesn't it?, maybe this would be ok too..ha ha.. lol)

Hadn't thought about the budget to "change the structure." Thanks for that, it makes me feel a lot better.

I don't think there'd be any such thing as casual sex between them either, but I think he could convince Brennan that it was, as you say, "Guy sex." Or, like a friends with benefits type thing. But, guy sex sounds better. LOL I agree with you that they already have a casual romantic relationship.

If he couldn't convince her to have sex at the beginning of their relationship, when she used 'tequilla' as an excuse to run away, he sure isn't going to convince her now. Not without the breaking of dams and the moving of the earth.