Re: Season Six Speculation Thread (From Show Discussion)

[THX1138]

I'm not getting into another "Booth vs Brennan" debate,

THANK YOU! Gah, I do love my debates and Lord knows I'm not shy about starting some shit or mixing things up around here but I swear the BvB debates aren't just getting old they're also getting predictable. I think I've got every point from both sides memorized by now, maybe we could just put together a numbered list and instead of actually having the BvB debate we could shout out "Numbers 7, 13, 22 and 6!"?

so I will keep my opinions about that to myself...but I do agree with that Booth/Hannah's relationship is completely based on sex. Hannah wasn't thinking about anything long term when she was "showing her gratitude." She followed him because she didn't like sleeping alone-sex. Their whole relationship is based on sex, lust, adrenalin and taking risks-short-REBOUND...and the writers have already established this. Sweets knows that it's just a rebound...and how come we haven't seen any mushy scenes between Booth/Hannah? Everything is completely about sex. Soon the flame will burn out...and Booth realize that he's still in love with Brennan.

Yep, Hannah is the quintessential rebound girl and everyone knows it but Brennan. The funny thing is that it's Booth who's trying to make more out of the relationship than it is and that, he's doing, because he feels the need to prove something to himself and to everyone else - that he's not a failure at relationships and he can be in a loving LTR if he wants to be. He's kidding himself, of course, because the only way he'll ever be in a loving LTR is with Brennan, but hey, that's a story for another day.


RM

[joybrennan]

see..I interpreted what happened in the 100th differently. She was all about having sex with Booth while drunk on Tequila until he started confessing all his personal stuff and telling her that he felt like it was going somewhere...and THAT is why she bailed...because Booth was more invested in having a "relationship" then having "sex" and that's not what she wanted. That has ALWAYS been the problem between Booth and Brennan....Booth wanting the whole relationship and Brennan only in it for the physical sexual release. She purposely lets the fights start because it's her way of keeping him at a distance and letting him know that she does not want any kind of actual relationship with him.

I can having that point of view, except for me, it doesn't fix her reaction to Booth telling her and Zach that they are back on the case. I think Brennan has always protected her heart because of her experiences, but also her own personality quirks. Outside of her family no one ever got her, she's referenced that a lot. For me, judging by her relationships with Pete and Michael, Brennan at that point saw sex and dating relationship as synonymous. She's like a guy that way. :loll. For instance, despite what she says to Angela about her relationship with Michael, when in bed with him, she wants to know how long he's in town for, AND she suggests finding him a job in D.C. so that they can keep seeing each other. Also, ED doesn't play it like a pure sex thing. That scene is a lot of cuddling and sweetness on her end. I do think she has had a TOTAL disconnect between what she SAYS she wants and believes and what she actually does. It's that self-protection mode that she hasn't even been concious of that is peeling away now. It's no longer serving her - it's hurting her.

In the pilot, Booth says "partners share things" and she says "we're not partners" and Booth says "sorry for the assumption" so even then she's resisting building a relationship of any kind with him...but enjoying the "adventure" of going in the field....in the end she does offer to help him balance his cosmic balance sheet but she still never labels their relationship as a "partnership"...and Booth doesn't even introduce her as his partner until many episodes later.

And there is that TOTAL disconnect. What Brennan describes she WANTS from Booth is a partnership - " total involvement in every aspect of the case" IS a partnership. Yet, she DOES balk at the word. Poor Booth! Yet, as you mentioned, he started calling her that later and hshe's fine with it - even embraces it. That's the beginnig of Booth "getting" Brennan. Whenever he's introducing a new idea or concept, he doesn't expect her to agree right away at all. He knows. stuff takes time. He usually makes his case and then waits for her to come around...

Anyway, that's how I've seen it, and honestly I think both points of view work - it's just about perspective. We clearly have opposite ones - it's probably best to agree to disagree - but we do share a passion for the show.

[AmandaFriend]

A few points:

jro54: I don't know if Booth is entirely on board thinking that Hannah is the quintessential rebound girl although I don't know if he believes it is a long-term relationship. He tells Brennan it is "serious as a heart attack" which is an odd description. Does he mean that it is a a matter of life and death? Way too literal, but I sense that he is trying, as someone said, to protect himself and put as much space between himself and Brennan.

Sweets has the advantage of being on the outside looking in and I think he's foreshadowing what might come between SB and HB. (Won't know, of course, until it happens. Tricky thing about foreshadowing.) Just HB's own admissions suggest that she's not entirely ready to settle down. And following some guy because you don't want to sleep alone? Seeley Booth must be masterful in bed. Or HB's had her own trouble finding that one, singular sensational guy.

People are always trying to explain things to Brennan, joybrennan. From Booth in the early episodes to Brennan admitting that to her brother, to Angela trying to make sense of the world for her, Brennan has never quite lived in the same plane as everyone else. She's either two steps ahead or woefully behind. The comment in 6.01 about how her eyes are seeing something not registering with her brain is, I think, something that is going to be explored later on in 6.08. There's that disconnect that she's experienced all her life and while she can use her intelligence to her advantage, she's still missing important connections that help her appear "normal."

Even if HB's the rebound girl that Brennan cannot recognize, it still doesn't lessen the discomfort she's in as she watches her carefully constructed world dissolve in front of her.

THX1148: Ordering debate points off a menu might be a really good idea. Imagine the tweeting world sending numbers like coded messages back and forth:

#88 = "HH you twit"
#89 = "Booth needs to grow a set."
#90 = "Brennan, you are a moronic genius."

So, for now: 12 34 56 97 43 57x2 34 92

[lancelot]

I think we need another episode.

[mommahurley]

Brennan is a forensic anthropologist...most of the work she's traveled around the world doing is finding out how people died. Most of the big things we've heard about her travels involve identifying bodies from mass slaughters and wars. It's a writing issue, but this trip of hers to Maluka to look for interspecies blah, blah, blah, is an anomaly for her career. She was teaching classes and working for the Jeffersonian for a while BEFORE she met Booth. I think to say she needs/wants to be traveling the world is a misnomer. IMO what she wants, and has actually created for herself, is a "home" and a "family." That desire absolute terrifies her and she denies it to herself. (or she used to, less so now.) She is certainly not conventional and neved will be, but the Wanderlust the journalist has is very different from Brennan. Brennan runs off to some foreign country or another when she's AFRAID of her emotional self and desires. Like AM said about Booth having a split between what he wants and what he thinks he should want, Brennan's fears and personality challenges cause a disconnect between what she wants and what she THINKS is the right, "logical" thing.

The above analysis is strictly my opinion. Any sense of it being an absolute truth or assessment is purely unintentional.

Wow!!! Very impressive interpretation here! I really feel like you have a firm understanding of Brennan. I would add that Booth thinks that he should love a traditional woman...a woman who stays home, makes a home for him and his son, loves unconditionally, but actually finds that those kinds of women, don't keep his attention. He also is emotionally unaware of himself in some ways. Yes he has a disconnect that allowed him to be cold enought to commit those killings for home and country...but he feels terrible guilta about it, becuase his faith tells him it's wrong. He's conflicted. In one episode I remember him saying what he admires about Bones, is that she can't be controlled, she can't be coersed, she can't be threatened...she says what she believes and she believes what she says. He admires that she isn't conflicted about those issues, becuase somewhere inside, he wishes he were that strong and sure. Brennan is strong where Booth is soft...and Booth is strong where Brennan is soft...and that is what makes them work. I believe they will ultimately come to a place where each realizes this in their own way.

In contrast...Hannah is all the things that Booth thinks he should want...he recognizes the parts of Hannah that are like Bones...strong, independent, adventurous...but I feel that at her core...she doesn't have that weak spot that truly needs Booth to complete her...and he needs that to complete him. Hannah is wildly attracted to Booth...but Hannah doesn't need Booth! Brennan does.
And Booth needs Brennan. They are eachothers missing pieces! Together they make a complete person.

[mommahurley]

The Hannah/Brennan scene about the phone and then the end are why this episode wasn't completely cringeworthy for me. Emily does heartbreaking like no other and the "I'm trying so hard to be happy for you right now" attitude was just...*sigh*. Her telling Hannah to be sure about the relationship makes me wonder if she's realized already how big her mistake in letting him go was.
.

Yes! Totally think she realizes her mistake ... when Brennan said it would break his heart if Hannah wasn't into the relationship the same way he was she might as well as added, "Like I did."

Judging by Booth's behavior Brennan made the right choice.

You can say what you want to about Booth, but if he was just following Brennan around like a love-sick puppy I'd have absolutely NO respect for him. He said he had to move on. He's trying. There's no crime in that. He's human - not perfect!And "Raghag," as you call her, is the woman that he's trying with.

Poor Booth, he tried so hard the last time he wanted to spend his life with a woman. Someone should perhaps tell Hannah that at the first sign of resistance, he will move on.

She is doing all the work, he's just along for the ride - and folks, take that any way you want.

You know, that's just evil enough for me to really, really appreciate the sentiment.

As for a lovesick puppy - no, I wouldn't respect that. However, I don't respect him now, either. He's just taking whatever bus comes along because he doesn't want to drive. Has a custom Lamborghini sitting in the garage, but the steering's "too sensitive, and the dashboard's "too complicated". Well, while he's out on the bus I hope some hot guy comes and steals his car, someone who knows its worth and likes to drive.

Hmm, nice try but it's more like this: There was a custom Lamborghini sitting in the parking lot that was free for the taking if anyone could get it started. Plenty of men managed to slip their key in the ignition but Booth couldn't ever get the damn thing to turn over no matter how patient he was or how much TLC he gave it. Finally after five years of taking the bus he decides to get a new mustang. Now the Lamborghini is coughing and sputtering everytime he walks by, acting for all the world like it wants to turn over, but his ride still has that new car smell. Why should he give the Lamborghini a second look again?

Oh, and no way in hell Hannah's a bus kiddo, that's a sweet ride if ever I saw one, and I bet she handles the turns like she's on rails.

RM

LoL! I'll go with the mustang part, but all Booth did was STARE at the Lamborghini and dream about driving it. Then, when finally opened the damn door and didn't find the ignition in the the first thirty seconds, he backed out, decided he couldn't handle it anyway. Then along came the mustang, open door, keys in the ignition. Sure, nice ride, but it ain't no Lamborghini.

U see i'm on Bones's team on this one. When she told hannah to be sure, it showed that she truly didn't go into a relationship with Booth based on the fear she would not be able to give him what he needed. She knew that the moment she said yes to a relationship Booth will fully give himself to her. She put her own happiness aside for Booth, knowing that she might break his heart. Booth should have known this, i mean it is in her character, and he should have waited. But i do respect his decision to move on, what I don't really respect his behaviour at all as he is jst reverting back to his old rebellious self, like in season and when he would date the pretty blondes tht just came and went, and in a way he is just contradicting everything he said about relationships. He is also pushing bones further and further away, but he should know she is the only one who really will be there till the end.

I would say both of them have to share the burden of their actions. We see how this is affecting Brennan and we have great sympathy for her. Her emotional upheaval is quite compelling to watch.

But don't forget that Booth probably thought that she was ready when he proposed they become a proper couple. There were so many things that suggested that maybe he was reading her right and she wanted a relationship with him. When the moment came, she balked out of fear and he backed off because he hadn't really read her right at all. In hindsight, yes, he might have said this or done that, but the problem was he misread all the signs-- something he was struggling with as a detective and something he mangled in the end with Brennan.

His behavior now is in keeping with his behavior earlier in their association, sure. But he is taking care of himself first at this time. He's spent all of his time taking care of his brother, his son, his partner, that now he is taking care of himself. Yes, it seems selfish, but he had no hope from Brennan. He hadn't heard from her for 7 months. Brennan wanted the partnership then walked away from the partnership to pursue ancient remains. He can't read her and he can't understand why she needs to take off.

Hannah is different because she literally does not have the same kind of baggage as Brennan. Booth's relationship with her mirrors his relationship with Brennan, which gives us great sympathy for Brennan. Rather than act on her sexual attraction to Booth, Brennan climbs into that taxi and takes off setting off this stalled romance. Hannah acts on her attraction and goes so far as to follow him back to the states. Brennan did nothing to suggest she would meet Booth part way or any way. She proposed that everything would be the same, they would pick up exactly as they had left it and he was the one who told her things had to change. Booth might look selfish at this time, but his selfishness was well-earned.

I love Brennan and to watch what she is going through is heartbreaking, but to be fair, she was responsible for saying no to Booth and then expecting everything to be the same. She might be naive about what her rejection meant, but the consequences are going to hit her more and more as time goes on.

While Booth might appear to be insensitive, he seems committed. He has to divorce himself from Brennan and make their relationship as professional as possible rather than get sucked in again in a relationship he feels has no future. His commitment to Brennan has now been transferred to Hannah and while I don't enjoy it, I understand it. I don't think he's deliberately trying to make Brennan jealous or flaunt his relationship with Hannah to hurt Brennan. He's literally taking what Brennan is telling him at face value and trying not to read anything else into it for fear that he would be back at square one in a hopeless situation with Brennan. If he were merely using Hannah to hurt Brennan or manipulate Brennan, he would deserve condemnation for using one woman to hurt another, but he's not really like that. He's trying to make both relationships work and while his refusal to talk about it with Sweets suggests he's being naive or stubborn or whatever, it shows he has made his decision and he's going to play the hand that was dealt him.

If Brennan were to tell him that seeing him with Hannah hurts, I could see him being less demonstrative around Brennan, but I don't see her saying that to him if she's doling out advice to Hannah and trying to be supportive. As long as she cannot be honest with herself or with Booth about whatever it is she wants or is feeling, she is going to be subjected to watching their relationship progress. He is doing what people in love do-- show affection for his love And I will feel a great deal of sympathy for Brennan, but I will also know that she's set herself on this path and helped steer Booth as well.

Wow... I find myself being pleasantly surprised and delighted with this whole discussion. I think that everything you're saying here has an element of truth and a great deal of thought and empathy... Amandafriend...I love your take on things...and I couldn't agree more with you. I feel for both of them.

It Think Brennan honestly and rationally believes that what she did...rejecting Booth when she did, leaving for 7 months, she did because she feels that she is the problem...not him! She feels that she CANNOT be what he wants her to be. And that if she tries, she will fail and in that failing she will hurt him in a way that he cannot survive. Therefor...she puts aside any hope or longing for home and family...any piece of love that she might harbor in her heart for Booth and sends him away. Sure she wants things to remain exactly the same as they once were, but soon realizes that they can't ... she's feeling the pressure of Entropy...a force that pulls everything apart and keeps everything constantly changing. '''

I think she came back regretting leaving...running away from the situation out of stress induced fear. But I don't really think that she is as of yet aware of her true feelings for Booth. I know that she loves him...I know that she's aware that she loves him...but I don't think she is yet aware that she can have a life with him if she wants to, and that that would ultimately make Booth happy, not cause him pain....and until she comes to that realization she will weather any amount of pain, in her effort to see to it that Booth's needs are met above and beyond hers. Like a mother who will give their life to protect their young, she is still Protecting Booth. It pains her to watch Booth with Hannah, but she wants whats best for him above what's best for herself. She saw Booth at his most weak and vulnerable, unconsious lifeless and helpless, clinging to her in his coma as his lifeline,..and she feels very protective of him. She;s heard about his father through Pops and has promised to be there for him... I think she needs to see Booth as whole and strong and totally able to deal with Hannah and the loss of Hannah if and when it comes to that, to convince her that the risk of trying...isn't necessarly too risky. I don't think we are there yet. But I hope we will get there.

[jro54]

@AmandaFriend What I meant was Hannah is essentially a "rebound." Everyone else thinks she's a "rebound." Hannah is really just an attempt to get over Brennan (...but I don't really think Booth would subconciously use a woman...but you know what I mean)...but I don't think Booth realizes himself yet. Even though I don't think Brennan rejected him because she didn't love or that she didn't want to be with him....she hurt him. He's trying convince himself that he's moved on, that he's "in love" with Hannah. He's, like you wrote in your post, trying protect himself. He's going to give this relationship an honest try...to prove to himself that he's not a failure at relationships...but of course, he's kidding himself.

[mommahurley]

bravo.... yes that's also what I believe. Booth wants to move on, thinks he's moved on...truly believes Hannah is everything he needs...but Booth doesn't fully know what he really needs because Booth has his own inner demons. Booth looks out for everone above himself...Booth covers his insecurites with Bravado...Booth considers himslef strong, and resiliant and optimistic...so he believes he can and will move on. I think he needs to realize that Brennan's actions , in trying to help Booth succeed with Hannah, even though it causes her great pain...is the most sincere profession of her love. She's going to need to realize that she's not Bad for Booth and he's going to need to realize that she really does love him...once they both come to those awarenesses, Hannah won't be enough for him....and I suspect that Hannah, will show herself in small ways, to love Booth, but not really need Booth, and above all Booth needs to be Needed!

[lancelot]

Wow... I find myself being pleasantly surprised and delighted with this whole discussion. I think that everything you're saying here has an element of truth and a great deal of thought and empathy... Amandafriend...I love your take on things...and I couldn't agree more with you. I feel for both of them.

It Think Brennan honestly and rationally believes that what she did...rejecting Booth when she did, leaving for 7 months, she did because she feels that she is the problem...not him! She feels that she CANNOT be what he wants her to be. And that if she tries, she will fail and in that failing she will hurt him in a way that he cannot survive. Therefor...she puts aside any hope or longing for home and family...any piece of love that she might harbor in her heart for Booth and sends him away. Sure she wants things to remain exactly the same as they once were, but soon realizes that they can't ... she's feeling the pressure of Entropy...a force that pulls everything apart and keeps everything constantly changing. '''

I think she came back regretting leaving...running away from the situation out of stress induced fear. But I don't really think that she is as of yet aware of her true feelings for Booth. I know that she loves him...I know that she's aware that she loves him...but I don't think she is yet aware that she can have a life with him if she wants to, and that that would ultimately make Booth happy, not cause him pain....and until she comes to that realization she will weather any amount of pain, in her effort to see to it that Booth's needs are met above and beyond hers. Like a mother who will give their life to protect their young, she is still Protecting Booth. It pains her to watch Booth with Hannah, but she wants whats best for him above what's best for herself. She saw Booth at his most weak and vulnerable, unconsious lifeless and helpless, clinging to her in his coma as his lifeline,..and she feels very protective of him. She;s heard about his father through Pops and has promised to be there for him... I think she needs to see Booth as whole and strong and totally able to deal with Hannah and the loss of Hannah if and when it comes to that, to convince her that the risk of trying...isn't necessarly too risky. I don't think we are there yet. But I hope we will get there.

Completely agree. I think Brennan shows that she does not think he's the problem because there is absolutely no anger, resentment or any negative feeling toward Booth. She understand why he is where he is as much as it hurts her.

I think when she rejected him she was being sympathetic and protective but it hurt him anyway. Love can not be denied even for the best of intentions.

[jro54]

Hannah is essentially a rebound. The whole point of Hannah for Booth is to get over Brennan, right? I guess it just helps me gets through this storyline...if I tell myself that she's just a "rebound girl." I don't think that Booth really realizes that she's just a rebound. I think he geuninely likes Hannah...and he might even have feelings for her...but I'm also not sure if he truly believes that this is long term. I keep thinking what Booth told Brennan when they first met. He tells her that he has a gambling problem because he sees this going some where...but he doesn't tell Hannah anything about his personal life. She tells Brennan that Booth doesn't shoot people unless he has to...like Brennan doesn't know Booth at all. Totally IMO, I would think that if he thinks this is going some where, he would tell her about his personal life.

I think we definietly need a new episode.

[gordongordonfan]

Yup! We need a new episode! And I'm bummed that we've heard no spoilers of 'Chef' Gordon Gordon returning! [Only admins are allowed to see this image] :-( I know they say his schedule is very tough... but I think he would be very interesting to watch during this season's developments! LOL

[mommahurley]

and.... I think that if Booth was advising Brennan on Booth...(does that make sense?) he would be telling her... "Now is the time to let your head take a backseat...and put your heart into overdrive"...vroooooommmmm.!

[jro54]

^Yep...although, I wonder what would be a good analogy of advice for Booth? Not only does Brennan have to wake up and realize...but Booth needs to realize that Hannah may be perfect and wonderful...but she will awlays be second best.

[joybrennan]

A few points:

jro54: I don't know if Booth is entirely on board thinking that Hannah is the quintessential rebound girl although I don't know if he believes it is a long-term relationship. He tells Brennan it is "serious as a heart attack" which is an odd description. Does he mean that it is a a matter of life and death? Way too literal, but I sense that he is trying, as someone said, to protect himself and put as much space between himself and Brennan.

Sweets has the advantage of being on the outside looking in and I think he's foreshadowing what might come between SB and HB. (Won't know, of course, until it happens. Tricky thing about foreshadowing.) Just HB's own admissions suggest that she's not entirely ready to settle down. And following some guy because you don't want to sleep alone? Seeley Booth must be masterful in bed. Or HB's had her own trouble finding that one, singular sensational guy.
[i]
People are always trying to explain things to Brennan, joybrennan. From Booth in the early episodes to Brennan admitting that to her brother, to Angela trying to make sense of the world for her, Brennan has never quite lived in the same plane as everyone else. She's either two steps ahead or woefully behind. The comment in 6.01 about how her eyes are seeing something not registering with her brain is, I think, somethng that is going to be explored later on in 6.08. There's that disconnect that she's experienced all her life and while she can use her intelligence to her advantage, she's still missing important connections that help her appear "normal." [i]

Even if HB's the rebound girl that Brennan cannot recognize, it still doesn't lessen the discomfort she's in as she watches her carefully constructed world dissolve in front of her.

THX1148: Ordering debate points off a menu might be a really good idea. Imagine the tweeting world sending numbers like coded messages back and forth:

#88 = "HH you twit"
#89 = "Booth needs to grow a set."
#90 = "Brennan, you are a moronic genius."

So, for now: 12 34 56 97 43 57x2 34 92

@AmandaFriend - yeah...what your pointing out to me in this sounds a lot like what I agree with about Brennan.

[AmandaFriend]

@AmandaFriend What I meant was Hannah is essentially a "rebound." Everyone else thinks she's a "rebound." Hannah is really just an attempt to get over Brennan (...but I don't really think Booth would subconciously use a woman...but you know what I mean)...but I don't think Booth realizes himself yet. Even though I don't think Brennan rejected him because she didn't love or that she didn't want to be with him....she hurt him. He's trying convince himself that he's moved on, that he's "in love" with Hannah. He's, like you wrote in your post, trying protect himself. He's going to give this relationship an honest try...to prove to himself that he's not a failure at relationships...but of course, he's kidding himself.

No arguments here. I agree. Boothy boy's looking for a way out of his stalemated relationship with Brennan and he has a warm, willing and welcoming woman who wants him. (Whew!) He had no such guarantee with Brennan. He's invested years into the relationship and it yielded wounded pride and a faltering partnership.

They need to take separate journeys back to each other and Hannah's the means to keep them apart. Together, they would simply be stalemated. They stumbled so badly with the other that Booth has to put up blinders and Brennan is being forced to look at herself with new eyes. Their "moment" will come when they finally see each other with fresh, honest eyes.

Booth will eventually come to realize that Hannah is merely a detour on his pathway toward reconciliation with Brennan. And Brennan will come to realize, possibly sooner than Booth, that she's made a wrong turn despite her good intentions. Booth will become more secure in himself, more confident, while Brennan will have to face something more drastic to break down the remnants of her defenses. I don't think anyone wants to see Brennan reduced to fan-fiction status of becoming nothing more than a puddle of tears; she's been too strong, too stubborn for that over the years. But she does need to question her thinking and begin to see that she can give as much to Booth as he's given to her over the years. The only way she can do that is to actually have proof-- be the "good partner", prove to herself that she has the capacity to give to another.

Booth's epiphany might actually be more complicated-- he's got to see the new Brennan, the reality of his situation with Hannah, and how he really feels. Brennan's just got to get past her own walls and convince herself that she can do it. Both are sisyphean tasks.

[virtualhorizon]

Great discussion! I found your statement, "He's invested years into the relationship and it yielded wounded pride and a faltering partnership" a little interesting though. I agree that Booth has invested a great deal of time into his 'relationship' with Brennan, but has he done it in the right way? He's continually given her all his little insights into relationships, telling her that 'everything happens eventually' and that 'there's someone out there for everyone', etc. I don't think I need to repeat all of them. His words always seem to be pointing to Brennan finding someone, someday, to be with. Someone ELSE. He's never indicated to her that it might be HIM that's out there waiting for her. Remember the line he drew? He seems totally unable to commit to her in that way; even during his big speech after leaving Sweet's office, it was all about giving them a shot, taking a gamble, etc.; the same words she's probably heard from every man she's ever had a relationship with. What she needs is to hear him say "I love you", something she has NEVER heard from a man. His unwillingness to say those words just puts him in the same category as every other man. Many posts bemoan the fact that Booth deserves to be happy, that Brennan turned him down and has to live with that, and that he has every right to move on. If that's the case, so be it. But I think a great part of the fault for Brennan and Booth's current situation lies with him!

[lexie1982]

"Many posts bemoan the fact that Booth deserves to be happy, that Brennan turned him down and has to live with that, and that he has every right to move on. If that's the case, so be it. But I think a great part of the fault for Brennan and Booth's current situation lies with him!""
Word. Booth totally blew that conversation. He talked about gambling, taking a chance, ect. without remembering that the woman he was talking to doesn't want a gamble...she only really trusts things that are sure, certain and proveable. She is going to need him to KNOW that he loves her (and only her), be able to SAY it to her with certainty and not be afraid to demonstrate his feelings to her.

[joybrennan]

Great discussion! I found your statement, "He's invested years into the relationship and it yielded wounded pride and a faltering partnership" a little interesting though. I agree that Booth has invested a great deal of time into his 'relationship' with Brennan, but has he done it in the right way? He's continually given her all his little insights into relationships, telling her that 'everything happens eventually' and that 'there's someone out there for everyone', etc. I don't think I need to repeat all of them. His words always seem to be pointing to Brennan finding someone, someday, to be with. Someone ELSE. He's never indicated to her that it might be HIM that's out there waiting for her. Remember the line he drew? He seems totally unable to commit to her in that way; even during his big speech after leaving Sweet's office, it was all about giving them a shot, taking a gamble, etc.; the same words she's probably heard from every man she's ever had a relationship with. What she needs is to hear him say "I love you", something she has NEVER heard from a man. His unwillingness to say those words just puts him in the same category as every other man. Many posts bemoan the fact that Booth deserves to be happy, that Brennan turned him down and has to live with that, and that he has every right to move on. If that's the case, so be it. But I think a great part of the fault for Brennan and Booth's current situation lies with him!

I'd say it's 50/50, but GOOD GOD, YOU'RE 14! Really well written, insightful analysis! I especially love how you wrote about all Booth's relationship talk could just as easily be construed as Booth encouraging Brennan to find love with someone else. Brilliantly explained. Welcome to the Aby!

[RubyRuby]

Great discussion! I found your statement, "He's invested years into the relationship and it yielded wounded pride and a faltering partnership" a little interesting though. I agree that Booth has invested a great deal of time into his 'relationship' with Brennan, but has he done it in the right way? He's continually given her all his little insights into relationships, telling her that 'everything happens eventually' and that 'there's someone out there for everyone', etc. I don't think I need to repeat all of them. His words always seem to be pointing to Brennan finding someone, someday, to be with. Someone ELSE. He's never indicated to her that it might be HIM that's out there waiting for her. Remember the line he drew? He seems totally unable to commit to her in that way; even during his big speech after leaving Sweet's office, it was all about giving them a shot, taking a gamble, etc.; the same words she's probably heard from every man she's ever had a relationship with. What she needs is to hear him say "I love you", something she has NEVER heard from a man. His unwillingness to say those words just puts him in the same category as every other man. Many posts bemoan the fact that Booth deserves to be happy, that Brennan turned him down and has to live with that, and that he has every right to move on. If that's the case, so be it. But I think a great part of the fault for Brennan and Booth's current situation lies with him!

Agreed. At the moment neither Brennan nor Booth are seeing Booth's responsibility for their current sitation. It seems to me that Brennan is accepting the fault as her own only, and Booth is (at least outwardly) glad to let her do so.

Perhaps the helicopter pilot's regret in the 8th episode, about not trying harder, is some sort of indication that the writers will be exploring some of Booth's decisions and indecisions. However, since HH & DB believe that Booth gave it his everything in the 100th, I don't want to pin my hopes too high.

[joybrennan]

Great discussion! I found your statement, "He's invested years into the relationship and it yielded wounded pride and a faltering partnership" a little interesting though. I agree that Booth has invested a great deal of time into his 'relationship' with Brennan, but has he done it in the right way? He's continually given her all his little insights into relationships, telling her that 'everything happens eventually' and that 'there's someone out there for everyone', etc. I don't think I need to repeat all of them. His words always seem to be pointing to Brennan finding someone, someday, to be with. Someone ELSE. He's never indicated to her that it might be HIM that's out there waiting for her. Remember the line he drew? He seems totally unable to commit to her in that way; even during his big speech after leaving Sweet's office, it was all about giving them a shot, taking a gamble, etc.; the same words she's probably heard from every man she's ever had a relationship with. What she needs is to hear him say "I love you", something she has NEVER heard from a man. His unwillingness to say those words just puts him in the same category as every other man. Many posts bemoan the fact that Booth deserves to be happy, that Brennan turned him down and has to live with that, and that he has every right to move on. If that's the case, so be it. But I think a great part of the fault for Brennan and Booth's current situation lies with him!

Agreed. At the moment neither Brennan nor Booth are seeing Booth's responsibility for their current sitation. It seems to me that Brennan is accepting the fault as her own only, and Booth is (at least outwardsly) glad to let her do so.

Perhaps the helicopter pilot's regret in the 8th episode, about not trying harder, is some sort of indication that the writers will be exploring some of Booth's decisions and indecisions. However, since HH & DB believe that Booth gave it his everything in the 100th, I don't want to pin my hopes too high.

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]..

[mommahurley]

"Many posts bemoan the fact that Booth deserves to be happy, that Brennan turned him down and has to live with that, and that he has every right to move on. If that's the case, so be it. But I think a great part of the fault for Brennan and Booth's current situation lies with him!""
Word. Booth totally blew that conversation. He talked about gambling, taking a chance, ect. without remembering that the woman he was talking to doesn't want a gamble...she only really trusts things that are sure, certain and proveable. She is going to need him to KNOW that he loves her (and only her), be able to SAY it to her with certainty and not be afraid to demonstrate his feelings to her.

Yes..these are all good points...he didn't say enough that's for sure...but..remember he is who he is...a person who's had every person that should have been there for him...abandon him...he's had very bad luck with family and women...so that was probably the most he could ask for at that point. For her to believe in him...to ta ke a chance on him..and to try to work it out with him...because "He knew"/// I find it very hard to assign "blame" to either of them...they are two human beings who are working through more baggage than most of us will ever have to deal with in our lifetimes...and they are still valuable, committed human beings who are working for good! Who recognize and appreciate eachoter and accept eachtoher for exactly who they are, wihtout changing...they're just having trouble taking that gamble that says..."we are in love, and we are going to commit to eachother, through thick and thin and be a family and work out our problems, and be together forever" .. that's huge for two people who have never had anyone do that for them...not parent...not sibling...not mates.... I can't blame either! They will have to travel the broken road that brings them home to...eachother!

[mommahurley]

^Yep...although, I wonder what would be a good analogy of advice for Booth? Not only does Brennan have to wake up and realize...but Booth needs to realize that Hannah may be perfect and wonderful...but she will awlays be second best.

The "crappy sex" anaolgy??????? lol

[gordongordonfan]

Okay... Hannah is still around in episode 9 .... *sigh* (Looked at the sides LOL)

[jro54]

Granted that there isn't much to go on...the Booth/Hannah dialoge in the sides does seem a little strange. She walks in to his holding a picture frame with a picture of Booth and Parker in it...and she's like, "I hope this frame is okay?" and Booth is suprised and touched. I'm not trying to get my hopes up too high...but the dialoge does seem a little strained.

[AmandaFriend]

Booth's investment in Brennan's enlightenment has always been part of their dynamic as partners and friends. His investment in them as a couple came later, after the coma dream, after he was privy to something she crafted that suggested she saw him as a potential romantic partner.

Both of them miscalculated that night. Booth expected that Brennan had invested in the dream he had believed in and she invested in the fact that she was turning down Booth and he would be all right with it in the end and ultimately, they would be all right in the end. Neither one of them was entirely aware of just how circumstances would conspire against them. Too many of their cases are reminders of their own circumstances-- a relationship gone wrong, a dream unfulfilled, a hope unrealized. And their conversations now have too many unspoken undercurrents. Neither one of them was entirely aware of having unleashed that genie, how difficult it would be to ignore its presence in their lives. Booth probably had more savvy in that regard, but Brennan has struggled with it as well.

Because Brennan is always steps behind herself when it comes to her emotions, her struggles are going to take on a different tenor than Booth's. But neither one of them has really talked through what happened. It's always been squashed or ignored so it's not farfetched to think that there is going to be a reckoning some day. Booth is actively erasing the stain of one failed relationship by pursuing a new relationship with a zeal meant to mask the scars, paint over the "metaphorical marks." Brennan has been less successful in her pursuits-- Maluku was a bust and outside of what she usually did, identify murder victims. Had she found something, she could have used it as a "surrogate relationship", but she found nothing.

I expect the partners to face some kind of explosive confrontation that will either clear the air and make it possible for them to start walking in the same direction together, or just disrupt the universe even more. In the meantime, they both have to have epiphanies about what they really want in their relationship with the other.

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