Have Booth & Brennan Missed Their Moment?

HH made a writing choice and directional choice, and it's now canon. That moment is NOT their moment by what has gone on since. The choice to go the way it is, IMO is just dragging it out. The moment, IMO, wouldn't have been about Brennan jumping in his arms and saying yes. It would have been Booth's approach not being a gamble, but a decision Brennan is what he wants and her SAYING she what she's afraid of. Booth being Booth (not gambling Booth) would simply tell her he was going to work on taking away her fears - because he knows she's the one. They wouldn't be "together" - but it wouldn't be a stupid reset either.

See, when I think of "missed their moment" I think of it as the moment to move forward in a believable fashion. There are many "moments" in a dramatic structure that advance the story. He didn't do that. He did a major build - and then knocked it down to start over. What's going on now IMO has little to do with the things built over the last few years.

If this were real life, then yes, they missed their moment. Many times. Luckily, it's not real life it's a TV show and Hart can write it any way he wants and have these characters do and say whatever he wants. So bottom line, to him, no they haven't missed their moment. The only real questions that remain to be answered are how many people will still be around once he decides to put them together, and how many people will actually still care.

Honestly, I think if they concentrate on writing a good show and being true to the characters the audience would hang in through it all.

I'm actually okay with them waiting pretty much as long as they want to bring them together, as long as they give them the perfect ending.

I'm okay with waiting until the end, just as long as the cases are interesting and B&B have their chemistry. I have convinced myself that we probably won't see B&B together until towards the end of the series...so it find it easier to deal with roadblocks. I still don't like the "Hannah" storyline...but I understand what the purpose of this arch (or what it's supposed to be) HH has said many time that he doesn't want to put B&B together in the very last episode...because it isn't a good way to use the characters. I take everything with a grain of salt. This could also mean that he's going to put them together in the episode before the very last episode...but I think we could count on seeing some screen time of them together...and then we'll get out complete resolution in the very last episode.

MI_Bonesgirl wrote:If this were real life, then yes, they missed their moment. Many times. Luckily, it's not real life it's a TV show and Hart can write it any way he wants and have these characters do and say whatever he wants. So bottom line, to him, no they haven't missed their moment. The only real questions that remain to be answered are how many people will still be around once he decides to put them together, and how many people will actually still care.

EXACTLY! Talk about a gamble. He's betting that he CAN write whatever he wants and people won't care about the quality. He's obviously right - even I haven't been pushed completely over the edge because I'm still paying attention . Just don't suggest that the show's writing is still brilliant and unique. It's a soap opera with a dead body each week. If it weren't for his brilliant cast, I doubt any of us would still be putting up with this. And even they won't be able to save this ship if the dragging on and reset crap continues.

As coined by the Wizard in the Broadway show "Wicked," HH now has a show of "brillant mediocrities."

joybrennan wrote: HH now has a show of "brillant mediocrities."

Couldn't agree more...and it's sad. it could have been just plain brilliant IMO.

lancelot wrote:

joybrennan wrote: HH now has a show of "brillant mediocrities."

Couldn't agree more...and it's sad. it could have been just plain brilliant IMO.

I know.
But the fact that actors can still work with it - major kudos!

For me, they haven't missed their moment, because IT hasn't happened. In order to have "their" moment, it means they both need to be in the same frame of mind...in love...together...at the same time. THAT has NOT happened...yet. They both have to realize they're on the same page. Neither one has said the word "love" to the other...in a serious context...so IMO, there can't be a moment until that happens. And I'm willing to wait...however long it takes on this journey HH has taken us on...for those "I love you" words to come from both Booth and Brennan. Bring it on!

GryphonTatoo wrote:For me, they haven't missed their moment, because IT hasn't happened. In order to have "their" moment, it means they both need to be in the same frame of mind...in love...together...at the same time. THAT has NOT happened...yet. They both have to realize they're on the same page. Neither one has said the word "love" to the other...in a serious context...so IMO, there can't be a moment until that happens. And I'm willing to wait...however long it takes on this journey HH has taken us on...for those "I love you" words to come from both Booth and Brennan. Bring it on!

I totally agree with you. This is what I was trying to say earlier, except I couldn't find find the right words.

GryphonTatoo wrote:For me, they haven't missed their moment, because IT hasn't happened. In order to have "their" moment, it means they both need to be in the same frame of mind...in love...together...at the same time. THAT has NOT happened...yet. They both have to realize they're on the same page. Neither one has said the word "love" to the other...in a serious context...so IMO, there can't be a moment until that happens. And I'm willing to wait...however long it takes on this journey HH has taken us on...for those "I love you" words to come from both Booth and Brennan. Bring it on!

You do realize that the "they" being discussed are written fictional characters, right? Obviously, it hasn't happened onscreen. I've assumed people were dicussing HH's writing choices. Onscreen, in the canon, you are right. Any opportunity to have "their" moment has, IMO, been tossed away in the writing.

However, I am glad not everyone feels that way, because while I'm not thrilled with the show, I'm not quite ready for it to be canceled either. . As a friend once said, "Now I just watch to see what nonsense HH will do next." Of course, I am paraphrasing. (Robert, you are correct: you still are the most evil - cuz NO WAY am I writing exactly what you said awhile back. )

lancelot wrote:

joybrennan wrote: HH now has a show of "brillant mediocrities."

Couldn't agree more...and it's sad. it could have been just plain brilliant IMO.

Is everyone forgetting what the show is actually about?
It's not a daytime soap, there are other things that hold a show together besides love interests.

i_heart_bones wrote:

lancelot wrote:

joybrennan wrote: HH now has a show of "brillant mediocrities."

Couldn't agree more...and it's sad. it could have been just plain brilliant IMO.

Is everyone forgetting what the show is actually about?
It's not a daytime soap, there are other things that hold a show together besides love interests.

You are right, it's NOT supposed to be a daytime soap. It IS supposed to be a relationship-driven procedural drama, which means if either element is off, the show becomes off-kilter. In a straight procedural the characters are replaceable. In a relationship driven show, the "relationship" characters aren't. If Olivia on Law & Order SVU got shot, killed and replaced by another female cop, the show would easily continue. You take Brennan or Booth out - the show falls apart. So although it is true that many things hold a show together, what those things are depend on the structure of the show. In the case of "Bones" it is B&B's relationship development and the cases they solve. Being that the relationship element is seen by some as having gone from drama to melodrama it does tend to create discussion on the overall quality of the show.

Yes i agree they haven't ever really had a moment, a single moment where they could just be together. There was never a moment where they were both fully aware of their feelings, or where they were ready to be together.

i_heart_bones wrote:

lancelot wrote:

joybrennan wrote: HH now has a show of "brillant mediocrities."

Couldn't agree more...and it's sad. it could have been just plain brilliant IMO.

Is everyone forgetting what the show is actually about?
It's not a daytime soap, there are other things that hold a show together besides love interests.

Oh, that's exactly what I'm getting at. I think the crazy manipulation of the characters just to play with the romantic angle hurt the integrity of the show as a whole. I don't watch it simply for B and B to get together. If they do great. If they don't OK.

I thought the original concept of the show was that Booth and Brennan worked on cases that could not be solved by normal means. In the first season they said that a few times. They're the best, they get the tough cases. For me the cases have not been given the attention they used to and in a lot of instances they're just average murder cases.

In fooling around with Booth's character to move the romance plot I have a hard time accepting his effectiveness in his work, which he is supposed to be the best at. The writers has stopped taking the time to show him investigating. Things keep happening to him which really makes him a pawn in the plot not the character he once was.

I miss seeing Booth and Brennan interacting with the other characters in a way that has nothing to do with the B&B storyline, etc is Booth and Hodgins. Booth gives Hodgins dirt to examine so he doesn't have to get outed a party he doesn't want to go to and Hodgins tells Booth he resigns to regain his respect. There's just not as much of that going on anymore - I think that's a mistake.

lancelot wrote:

i_heart_bones wrote:

lancelot wrote:

joybrennan wrote: HH now has a show of "brillant mediocrities."

Couldn't agree more...and it's sad. it could have been just plain brilliant IMO.

Is everyone forgetting what the show is actually about?
It's not a daytime soap, there are other things that hold a show together besides love interests.

Oh, that's exactly what I'm getting at. I think the crazy manipulation of the characters just to play with the romantic angle hurt the integrity of the show as a whole. I don't watch it simply for B and B to get together. If they do great. If they don't OK.

I thought the original concept of the show was that Booth and Brennan worked on cases that could not be solved by normal means. In the first season they said that a few times. They're the best, they get the tough cases. For me the cases have not been given the attention they used to and in a lot of instances they're just average murder cases.

In fooling around with Booth's character to move the romance plot I have a hard time accepting his effectiveness in his work, which he is supposed to be the best at. The writers has stopped taking the time to show him investigating. Things keep happening to him which really makes him a pawn in the plot not the character he once was.

I miss seeing Booth and Brennan interacting with the other characters in a way that has nothing to do with the B&B storyline, etc is Booth and Hodgins. Booth gives Hodgins dirt to examine so he doesn't have to get outed a party he doesn't want to go to and Hodgins tells Booth he resigns to regain his respect. There's just not as much of that going on anymore - I think that's a mistake.

@ lancelot - I agree with you about the crazy manipulation to create will they/won't they has hurt the show. It's why all the other fun stuff isn't happening and the cases aren't as good.

The show, according to HH, was however, was always supposed to be duel focused. He didn't want to do a straight procedural; he wanted a procedural that was about relationships, in particular the one between B&B. Both points were supposed to be worked with. For a while they did. The cases were interesting and the connection between B&B, between them and the other characters had a natural organic feel to it. Had they simply let the characters go where they wanted to, IMO, we wouldn't have the mess we have today. It takes a lot of energy and effort to manipulate characters off of their natural path. It throws everything else out of balance. Right now, the show seems completely derailed. To get it "back on topic" IMO, they need to move B&B forward so that the focus isn't on them so much. When the relationship was originally being developed, it wasn't the only thing happening; it's NOT developing anymore. It's spinning in circles - taking all the other elements with it. That's why it feels like a soap; soap opera storylines ARE circular. Drama is linear.

I COMPLETELY agree. I wasn't saying there shouldn't be a B&B relationship element just that it needed to evolve organically like you put it. And if the characters don't end up together there's got to be a real, rational reason that makes sense. I DO think they are getting back on track though. The first 2 episodes IMO seem to be going in the right direction.

lancelot wrote:I COMPLETELY agree. I wasn't saying there shouldn't be a B&B relationship element just that it needed to evolve organically like you put it. And if the characters don't end up together there's got to be a real, rational reason that makes sense. I DO think they are getting back on track though. The first 2 episodes IMO seem to be going in the right direction.

I am watching the Jersey Shore ep tonight. It was supposed to be ep 4, but they moved it to 3. It looks like a real send up of that STUPID shore. I was really annoyed when I first heard about it because I thought the LAST thing that show needs is more publicity. However, it looks like it's going to be really over-the-top stupid-funny, and some laughter is much needed. Smart move to move it to 3. Another week of Raghag crap and sad Brennan and viewers might have snapped.

joybrennan wrote:

lancelot wrote:I COMPLETELY agree. I wasn't saying there shouldn't be a B&B relationship element just that it needed to evolve organically like you put it. And if the characters don't end up together there's got to be a real, rational reason that makes sense. I DO think they are getting back on track though. The first 2 episodes IMO seem to be going in the right direction.

I am watching the Jersey Shore ep tonight. It was supposed to be ep 4, but they moved it to 3. It looks like a real send up of that STUPID shore. I was really annoyed when I first heard about it because I thought the LAST thing that show needs is more publicity. However, it looks like it's going to be really over-the-top stupid-funny, and some laughter is much needed. Smart move to move it to 3. Another week of Raghag crap and sad Brennan and viewers might have snapped.

It was? I've had it listed at number 3 for quite awhile in the home of the spoiler thread.... how long ago did they change it? I think I missed something

treble21 wrote:

joybrennan wrote:

lancelot wrote:I COMPLETELY agree. I wasn't saying there shouldn't be a B&B relationship element just that it needed to evolve organically like you put it. And if the characters don't end up together there's got to be a real, rational reason that makes sense. I DO think they are getting back on track though. The first 2 episodes IMO seem to be going in the right direction.

I am watching the Jersey Shore ep tonight. It was supposed to be ep 4, but they moved it to 3. It looks like a real send up of that STUPID shore. I was really annoyed when I first heard about it because I thought the LAST thing that show needs is more publicity. However, it looks like it's going to be really over-the-top stupid-funny, and some laughter is much needed. Smart move to move it to 3. Another week of Raghag crap and sad Brennan and viewers might have snapped.

It was? I've had it listed at number 3 for quite awhile in the home of the spoiler thread.... how long ago did they change it? I think I missed something

No, I probably did! I was off the spoiler thread for a bit. It was first annouced as the 4th, which is why I'd said I wasn't watching until ep 4. Since it's now 3, I'll watch tonight and backtrack on Hulu. Easier to watch the sad stuff when I've seen it really does get better. (I AM assuming tonight will be better for our heroes emotionally )

Hi, I'm new to this forum and I just can't resist to put in my 2 cents.

I don't think they missed any moment at all. They always have those little moments which make their connection really special. I don't think "THE ONE MOMENT" that we are looking forward will be very significant if it is forced on the characters, whether they are ready or not.
After all, we can take the horse to the river but we can't force it to drink. The refreshing water will only be beneficial to the horse if he has a need for it.

And speaking of horses, my favorite moment was in the episode "Death in the Saddle" where Booth was talking to Brennan about connections and I can see in Brennan's apt face a reverence of some kind. Like there was a revelation that has finally reached her uber rational brain which she can't rationalize. To me that was a MAJOR MOMENT!

Well Brennan would say that nothing in the universe happens only once, and with Booth, I'd say he's one of those "While we live, there's hope" types so no, I don't think they've missed their moment. I do, though, think that they very well could miss it if they both don't get their heads out of their collective asses.

Booth went to Afghanistan heart broken but hopeful of coming back in a year and finding Brennan more open to a relationship. However when he got no contact from her for months at a time he gave up on ever having anything but their partnership when he went back so he fell into bed with the first attractive woman to give him a second look - Hannah. Now that he's back and he's finding those old familiar feelings starting to stir he's throwing himself into his relationship with Hannah, hoping - I believe - to convince himself that he's in love with her even though his heart isn't really in it.

Brennan, for her part, left for Maluku because she was overwhelmed by emotions she couldn't identify or understand. She rejected Booth because she was afraid she'd hurt him, and more importantly that if she let herself fall in love with him that he would somehow hurt her. Instead she found she'd already hurt him badly, worse than that she found that her feelings for him were deeper and more complex that she'd admitted to herself. The gravedigger case didn't dredge up uncomfortable memories of her own kidnapping as much as it did her feelings of helplessness when Booth was taken. That pushed her to her emotional breaking point and she fled to Maluku in hopes of putting emotional space between them and in an effort to figure out what she was feeling. Seven months of self enforced silence clarified things to the point that she now knows she loves Booth, worse she knows she hurt him badly and has the potential to hurt him even more. She sees Hannah as both a blessing and a curse. A curse in that she's Brennan's just punishment for rejecting Booth, and a blessing because Brennan is more than willing to sacrifice her own happiness for Booth's - and not for purely altruistic reasons either.

You see Brennan is still afraid of letting herself love Booth the way he wants her to, because she's still afraid of hurting him or, more importantly, getting hurt herself. Hannah solves that problem for both of them by being what she things Booth needs - an open, intelligent, and adventuresome woman who can love him completely. As long as Hannah is around Brennan doesn't have to risk her heart, and as long as she makes Booth happy Brennan won't feel guilty about having hurt him. Once Hannah is gone, however, Brennan's carefully constructed world of lies and self-delusion will crash down around her and she'll be forced to act on her feelings for Booth or give him up completely. I'm hoping for the former.

RM

THX1138 wrote:Well Brennan would say that nothing in the universe happens only once, and with Booth, I'd say he's one of those "While we live, there's hope" types so no, I don't think they've missed their moment. I do, though, think that they very well could miss it if they both don't get their heads out of their collective asses.

Booth went to Afghanistan heart broken but hopeful of coming back in a year and finding Brennan more open to a relationship. However when he got no contact from her for months at a time he gave up on ever having anything but their partnership when he went back so he fell into bed with the first attractive woman to give him a second look - Hannah. Now that he's back and he's finding those old familiar feelings starting to stir he's throwing himself into his relationship with Hannah, hoping - I believe - to convince himself that he's in love with her even though his heart isn't really in it.

Brennan, for her part, left for Maluku because she was overwhelmed by emotions she couldn't identify or understand. She rejected Booth because she was afraid she'd hurt him, and more importantly that if she let herself fall in love with him that he would somehow hurt her. Instead she found she'd already hurt him badly, worse than that she found that her feelings for him were deeper and more complex that she'd admitted to herself. The gravedigger case didn't dredge up uncomfortable memories of her own kidnapping as much as it did her feelings of helplessness when Booth was taken. That pushed her to her emotional breaking point and she fled to Maluku in hopes of putting emotional space between them and in an effort to figure out what she was feeling. Seven months of self enforced silence clarified things to the point that she now knows she loves Booth, worse she knows she hurt him badly and has the potential to hurt him even more. She sees Hannah as both a blessing and a curse. A curse in that she's Brennan's just punishment for rejecting Booth, and a blessing because Brennan is more than willing to sacrifice her own happiness for Booth's - and not for purely altruistic reasons either.

You see Brennan is still afraid of letting herself love Booth the way he wants her to, because she's still afraid of hurting him or, more importantly, getting hurt herself. Hannah solves that problem for both of them by being what she things Booth needs - an open, intelligent, and adventuresome woman who can love him completely. As long as Hannah is around Brennan doesn't have to risk her heart, and as long as she makes Booth happy Brennan won't feel guilty about having hurt him. Once Hannah is gone, however, Brennan's carefully constructed world of lies and self-delusion will crash down around her and she'll be forced to act on her feelings for Booth or give him up completely. I'm hoping for the former.

RM

Wow, your highness - I actually agree with most of this. Note I said most . My point of contention is this:As long as Hannah is around Brennan doesn't have to risk her heart, and as long as she makes Booth happy Brennan won't feel guilty about having hurt him. Once Hannah is gone, however, Brennan's carefully constructed world of lies and self-delusion will crash down around her and she'll be forced to act on her feelings for Booth or give him up completely. I'm hoping for the former.

I think there are going to have to be some mutual changes and realizations if these two are going to get together. I agree that Brennan had her realization in Maluka, and would have approached Booth if Blondzilla wasn't in the picture. However, she is in the picture, and that picture is affirming that insecure part of herself. The part that says she's not right for him. She is now stuck with knowing that she's in love with Booth, AND she wasn't right for him. I say she thinks she not right for him because if she thought the journalist wasn't right for Booth or was going to hurt him, she'd take Blondzilla out in second. Hence the warning Brennan makes to her about being sure.

So Brennan is in love with Booth and trying to hide it from him, trying to go back to that best-friend denial place. Only from what's been going on, looks like she's not doing so well with it. Even if/when Blondie leaves, Brennan isn't going to jump up and say, "hey guess what, I'm sorry about what happened before and maybe we could try it now." She STILL thinks she's wrong for Booth. If the blondie/Booth relationship ends badly, or hell, even if Booth is just sad, Brennan will see it as what would happen if things didn't work out between her and Booth.

Here's where the other part of what IMO has to happen. Brennan is basically falling apart because of her awareness of being in love with Booth. And Booth's powers of observation and investigation seem to have returned this year (HH issue, ) Last week he started to notice something might be off with Brennan. He doesn't want to know, he doesn't want to feel those feelings for her again. He wants to move on. It's not happening - anyone who watched the ep and saw that look at the end, knows this. Booth needs to figure out that love isn't so transferable. You love who you love and you can't MAKE yourself love someone else.

Now, you and I majorly disagree about what I'm going to write next, so like, I'm just going to agree to disagree now. I don't thing Booth really knew Brennan was "the one." He once called her "the standard" - which isn't the same thing. The standard is what a factory uses when making models of the same thing. You compare things "to the standard" which implies others can match or measure up. I think what his relationship started in a warzone under a fig tree is going to show him is that the mold labeled "love of his life" got smashed after Brennan. She's it.

That being said, this is where I think they'll meet in the middle. Booth is already sensing Brennan is holding something back from him. She couldn't hold anything about her feelings back before because she wasn't consciously sure about what was going on with her emotions. Now she is aware, and she's never been good at lying about what she knows. The information about Brennan being in love with him is going to surface, Brennan is going to let it slip and it will be the final piece of the puzzle Booth will have been trying to put together despite himself. Brennan and him are both going have to risk telling each other the truth. Brennan that she's in love with him, and Booth is going to have to get to the place of being able to say she is THE ONE, and he wasn't able to move on because of it.

Yup. I hope they do a good job of showing Booths inner conflict as he comes to the realization that his relationship with Hannah, which he has thrown himself into so wholeheartedly, just isnt enough for him and Brennan is still the one he really wants. He is the guy who would never cheat, and if this is well done it could be very compelling to see him struggle with trying to be committed to one woman while wanting someone else.

lexie1982 wrote:Yup. I hope they do a good job of showing Booths inner conflict as he comes to the realization that his relationship with Hannah, which he has thrown himself into so wholeheartedly, just isnt enough for him and Brennan is still the one he really wants. He is the guy who would never cheat, and if this is well done it could be very compelling to see him struggle with trying to be committed to one woman while wanting someone else.

Absolutely, and I hope that do that justice also. They tend to gloss over those things with Booth.