Couple in the Cave clips

1.- Clark rocks!
2.- Tinkonbrink: Your commments about Hannah being the new Sully... Spot on! I especially love the "they both have big hair" similarity! Had me cracking up!~ [Only admins are allowed to see this image]
3.- I mentioned Brennan's wardrobe in another thread, and I hate to focus on a 'petty' issue but I think it's becoming a big issue actually. LOOK at what they keep putting her in! (This clip gives us yet more examples of it... It's sad when her lab coat is by far the most flattering thing she wears.) Is this going to be the season of the bad/stiff/multi-colored/button-down? Can they POSSIBLY make her look more like a matronly pharm. sales rep? (Who is very tired, by the way?) It's ridiculous. You have Hannah portrayed as a "cute young thing" and Bones portrayed as a middle aged Mom / office worker. And ED is BEAUTIFUL, so this is a huge disservice. Only sense it may make is if they are planning some huge "butterfly out of the cocoon" moment a few more episodes in... but I don't know... She doesn't look like the leading lady anymore (even though of course I know that she is and that fact isn't going to change)... but the fact is wardrobe sets the tone for a LOT in tv land... Every female on this show is now better dressed than her.

I think he is trying to distance himself from her because he is trying to convince himself that he has moved on. Here's why: in the new promo for the Couple in the Cave he and Brennan are having drinks and when Hannah arrives, they leave her at the bar with $50.
In season 2 when she and Booth are having coffee at the Jeffersonian, he stays with her rather than leave to be with Cam who was supposedly his girlfriend at the time. Big change.
Booth is trying too hard to move on and Brennan looks so sad when no one is watching that it is very intense right now.

I hear what you guys are saying, I guess most of all I miss the old BB who were best friends, flirty, confided in one another, you could SEE that Booth thought Brennan was amazing and he wanted to be around her.

Bailey... perhaps it's just me but watching BB together now is just sad and painful. Booth, to me, is clearly trying to shut Brennan out - you could see it in every scene they were in. It's like the spark has gone, the relationship is ruined and I am worried that it's not going to be salvageable. Booth just looks uncomfortable and disinterested in spending time with and being around Brennan. It's like he doesn't even want to be friends anymore. And maybe Brennan didn't make it clear that she wanted to stay friends, although I think it's pretty obvious how much she valued their current relationship, otherwise she wouldn't have turned him down.

My biggest concern atm is how are they going to convince us that Booth still wants to be with Brennan, when Hannah is so perfect? How are they going to fix BB's relationship so we can believe they are in love with one another? I can see that Brennan loves Booth but there is no evidence that Booth even still wants to be friends with her nevermind being in love with her.

DoctorB wrote:I hear what you guys are saying, I guess most of all I miss the old BB who were best friends, flirty, confided in one another, you could SEE that Booth thought Brennan was amazing and he wanted to be around her.

Bailey... perhaps it's just me but watching BB together now is just sad and painful. Booth, to me, is clearly trying to shut Brennan out - you could see it in every scene they were in. It's like the spark has gone, the relationship is ruined and I am worried that it's not going to be salvageable. Booth just looks uncomfortable and disinterested in spending time with and being around Brennan. It's like he doesn't even want to be friends anymore. And maybe Brennan didn't make it clear that she wanted to stay friends, although I think it's pretty obvious how much she valued their current relationship, otherwise she wouldn't have turned him down.

My biggest concern atm is how are they going to convince us that Booth still wants to be with Brennan, when Hannah is so perfect? How are they going to fix BB's relationship so we can believe they are in love with one another? I can see that Brennan loves Booth but there is no evidence that Booth even still wants to be friends with her nevermind being in love with her.

I'm hoping what will eventually happen with this next episode and others down the road is that Brennan will find a way to creep back under Booth's skin. She won't realize she's doing it or be making the effort to try, but it will happen. And the perfection he sees and feels with Hanah will fall far short of the interest and excitement he's shared with Brennan. It'll be the case where perfection won't always be what it's cracked up to being.
I think we'll have to go through some hurtful episodes and it looks like next weeks will be one of them, leaving her at FF alone. But I am hoping for a point where Booth will come to his senses and find perfection to be lacking something perfect. Just like Brennan did with Sully. Remember her little speech, I don't remember who it was to, Angela, Booth or Gordon Gordon about why she didn't leave with Sully. I remember some kind of wording about how she felt Sully was perfect for her. Well Booth may be saying (or thinking ) the same thing, but I don't see him getting on a boat with Hanah and traveling to Bora Bora or somewhere like that.

Katharine, I know that's the direction it will go, I am just having a hard time seeing how they will believably fix BB's relationship. I know realistically Booth and Hannah won't last, but I am worried about whether or not BB can have what they had before (and more). I wish I didn't love this show so much, cos the whole thing is making me feel so... sad

DoctorB wrote:I hear what you guys are saying, I guess most of all I miss the old BB who were best friends, flirty, confided in one another, you could SEE that Booth thought Brennan was amazing and he wanted to be around her.

Bailey... perhaps it's just me but watching BB together now is just sad and painful. Booth, to me, is clearly trying to shut Brennan out - you could see it in every scene they were in. It's like the spark has gone, the relationship is ruined and I am worried that it's not going to be salvageable. Booth just looks uncomfortable and disinterested in spending time with and being around Brennan. It's like he doesn't even want to be friends anymore. And maybe Brennan didn't make it clear that she wanted to stay friends, although I think it's pretty obvious how much she valued their current relationship, otherwise she wouldn't have turned him down.

My biggest concern atm is how are they going to convince us that Booth still wants to be with Brennan, when Hannah is so perfect? How are they going to fix BB's relationship so we can believe they are in love with one another? I can see that Brennan loves Booth but there is no evidence that Booth even still wants to be friends with her nevermind being in love with her.

We could debate that to the death and still neither be totally right because it's all a matter of preception. I really don't see how you're getting he doesn't even wanna be friends considering we've only seen one episode and a couple clips of another ... and already we've seen him meet her before anyone else when he comes back, take her for drinks and pay for them, nearly beg her not to go back to Maluku, tell her that he missed her forwardness, etc.

I guess in some ways we all see what we want to see. A lot of people are mad at Booth and hate Hannah, so they see that Booth is being a jerk and shutting Brennan out. Some of us think Hannah is a neccesary evil and Booth is just trying to move on without any intention of hurting Brennan, which will alter their relationship but not mean that he doesn't want to be friends anymore.

More than likely we're all both a little right and all both a little wrong.

But hey, if Brennan can't be happy anytime soon, at least Emily is.

DoctorB wrote:Katharine, I know that's the direction it will go, I am just having a hard time seeing how they will believably fix BB's relationship. I know realistically Booth and Hannah won't last, but I am worried about whether or not BB can have what they had before (and more). I wish I didn't love this show so much, cos the whole thing is making me feel so... sad

I know what you mean. I'm hoping that since they got their mojo back after the Sully stint that they can after this too. I think this season will be painful and from what I am reading just on this board alone, a few folks aren't wanting to stay along for the ride.
I kinda felt that way when they gave her Sully as a "boyfriend" but at that point I didn't have as much invested in their relationship as now. It's hard to agree with the turn of events on this show, but I really stop and think I have no choice. I will watch it until it hurts my eyes not to watch anymore. And since I think DB is nice on the eyes that might be awhile, however superficial that may be.

bailey wrote:
We could debate that to the death and still neither be totally right because it's all a matter of preception. I really don't see how you're getting he doesn't even wanna be friends considering we've only seen one episode and a couple clips of another ... and already we've seen him meet her before anyone else when he comes back, take her for drinks and pay for them, nearly beg her not to go back to Maluku, tell her that he missed her forwardness, etc.

I guess in some ways we all see what we want to see. A lot of people are mad at Booth and hate Hannah, so they see that Booth is being a jerk and shutting Brennan out. Some of us think Hannah is a neccesary evil and Booth is just trying to move on without any intention of hurting Brennan, which will alter their relationship but not mean that he doesn't want to be friends anymore.

More than likely we're all both a little right and all both a little wrong.

I agree that we will all have our own perceptions. I didn't see Booth begging Brennan to stay at all, just talking with her about it, I am not convinced he even wants to work with her but rather doing what he thinks is best for the team.

Perhaps I'm the only one who thinks the spark is missing and their relationship has more or less gone down the toilet?? I'm not saying that it's totally Booth's fault, either, I just find the way he's treating and acting around Brennan uncomfortable. I mean the whole missing link comment? Ugh. And taking her for drinks almost seemed like he felt it was an obligation, one of which he could hardly wait to get out of in favour of going to dinner with Hannah.

But hey, if Brennan can't be happy anytime soon, at least Emily is.

Totally agree with you there

I loved Clark! OMG! I never thought he would express this way. I thought it was very funny how the others were standing there with their mouth full. And then Hodgins' reaction: "dude, get some self control." Very funny.

The B-roll was a bit sad, true. I think Bones' most concern is the fact that she might lose him forgood. So, hopefully the Brennan episode is going to change her mind to actually do something about it. Now, she just wants to see Booth happy but is forgetting about her own happiness.

treble21 wrote:Honestly, do I like seeing Brennan all sad and quiet? No. BUT.... I also don't think Booth is being deliberately mean to her and rubbing her nose in it, he's just very matter of fact about it. " this is my girlfriend and I love her" ( I'm one of those people that thinks that Booth probably does love Hannah, just like he loved Rebecca.... doesn't mean she's still not second best.)
I'm not saying he shouldn't care about Brennan's feelings but I don't think he should have to coddle her about his relationship.

Agree [Only admins are allowed to see this image]

LMAO! too funny!

SnoopGirl wrote:

treble21 wrote:Honestly, do I like seeing Brennan all sad and quiet? No. BUT.... I also don't think Booth is being deliberately mean to her and rubbing her nose in it, he's just very matter of fact about it. " this is my girlfriend and I love her" ( I'm one of those people that thinks that Booth probably does love Hannah, just like he loved Rebecca.... doesn't mean she's still not second best.)
I'm not saying he shouldn't care about Brennan's feelings but I don't think he should have to coddle her about his relationship.

Agree [Only admins are allowed to see this image]

Also people seem to forget that it was Brennan who dissolved their partnership by agreeing to go to Maluku in the first place. She'd already made up her mind even if she hadn't officially accepted the position before she ever mentioned it to Booth. She turned him down; told him to move on and then left town. Then she never contacted him all the time she was gone. I'm not sure how Booth comes off as a villain in that scenario. I'm another that is very happy to see Brennan realize that maybe she's made a mistake. Obviously from last week and the clips for the next episode the consciousness of the magnitude of that mistake hasn't percolated.

What is going to be crucial is when and if she realizes it, when Booth and Hannah end, where do the writers go? DB has said that B&B 'will be closer than ever' and HH intimated the same thing. But if closer than ever means back to the same old same old of the earlier seasons with one of them mooning around for the other and no one acknowledging anything then personally I'd rather watch the DVD's of earlier, far better written seasons.

I also hope that once we see the fallout from this we don't just get 1 mooning around for the other again... But you know what I could take? If we can't get them 2 straight into a relationship (which I figure will still be many stages/steps in coming) then I could take it if them being "closer than ever" that BOTH of them acknowledge they are in love with the other (even if it's only to themselves or to others like Angela or Sweets) but they 'know' the other may never feel the same but that's just the way it is... the 'heart wants what it wants' and they won't deny it to themselves anymore or try to 'move on' with others. Both kinda accept that if "this" (partners, friends) is all they can have, they will take it.

And of course we all know that it ISN'T all they can have, but it's a good starting point.

The reason I don't think that would work is that Booth has decided he isn't going to sit around waiting for Brennan to love him. He's taking action. He's found someone willing to change their life for him and she makes him happy. Torpedoing that romance to sit around and wait for Brennan yet again just won't work dramatically. What I worry about is having ended the Booth/Hannah relationship, the writers then decide to 'explore some romantic possibilities' for Brennan. And now we have another SO scenario only with Booth once more in a holding pattern. My blood pressure rises just at the thought. Either Hannah leads to a resolution of the B&B relationship or the show is screwed. I just don't think that this level of mediocre writing will keep audiences connected.

elyon wrote:The reason I don't think that would work is that Booth has decided he isn't going to sit around waiting for Brennan to love him. He's taking action. He's found someone willing to change their life for him and she makes him happy. Torpedoing that romance to sit around and wait for Brennan yet again just won't work dramatically. What I worry about is having ended the Booth/Hannah relationship, the writers then decide to 'explore some romantic possibilities' for Brennan. And now we have another SO scenario only with Booth once more in a holding pattern. My blood pressure rises just at the thought. Either Hannah leads to a resolution of the B&B relationship or the show is screwed. I just don't think that this level of mediocre writing will keep audiences connected.

It definately needs to be resolved. We don't need any more SO's, we need progess, and CHEMISTRY. That old black magic needs to make a come back soon, and HH needs to realise how this is all coming accross to viewers.

I don't like to compare the current situation to the Sully arc. I just re-watched that, and B&B had a lot of chemisry going. They were comfortable around each other, and it was a straight 4 episode arc. It wasn't dragged out over the second half of season 2. The Priest in the Churchyard showed B&B dealing with the consequences of Brennan's decision to stay, but it was full of bickering, and heated arguments. It was still B&B all the way, and it wasn't painful to watch at all IMO.

Now that their relationship is more complicated, I don't see them bickering it out, and high fiving "We're back!" Instead, I see plenty of disatance, angst, and perhaps some resentment. But that is all speculation.

I think that Hart Hanson works to a formula. I see postings on here identifying connenctions between the cases and B&B. I think there is also a mirror affect in the other relationships on the show to B & B. Hodgela and B&B are very closely connected in their journey. Clark makes this startling comment to Brennan in the next episode after making a similar OOC comment to Hodgins last season that was basically saying 'Wake up!' I see Hannah as a Roxy or a Sully, a plot device. She serves a purpose for many of the characters. The focus has been on Brennan but I think she is more important to the character growth of Booth. At the outset it is eye candy value. A virile male lead is better than an impotent one, which he was most of Season 5. He did not even flirt with anyone in S5 and not even with Brennan (unless you count the flashback 100 and that awkward catfish moment). This is not good use of the good looking lead.

Booth is always trying to protect Brennan, but it is her energy and fearless attitude that he fell in love with. He tamed her in his coma dream and he seemed to tame her throughout Season 5. Her outfits and the general approach to everything was far more reserved. She became more talk and no action. The statement in the premiere "I find it interesting that I am only scared of snakes when Booth is there to be jumped on" is an indication of her character acknowledging her growing weakness around him. Not a lustful weakness at the knees but literally deferring to him to do the big manly physical stuff that she was never shy of doing for herself in the past or alone on the Maluku islands - fixing a car etc. S6 Brennan seems to be a hybrid of both kick ass S1 and reserved S5. She is finding there is a place for certain kinds of behaviour. This is something she will need for her future relationship with Booth.

But I have strayed from my point. Hannah was a wild reporter working on the frontline in IRAQ and to follow Seeley she settles for a job she said she would never take in DC. That conversation must have been had for him to acknowledge she said she would not take it. He is taming his new Brennan. I think he probably is smitten with her. Who wouldn't be, she is sexy and she is there and saying yes. He doesn't have to argue with her. She ultimately folds and lets him have his way. In the end for Booth he will discover she is too open vs Brennan's inability to open up (a challenge that strangely enough he desires more). Alternatively, the story-line could go that Hannah begins to feel trapped and feels the pull to go back to her adrenalin charged life and Booth realises he trapped her. A lesson about what not to do with Brennan. Either way Booth learns something that he will carry with him into his inevitable romantic relationship with Brennan.

As far as her 'love is just a chemical reaction in the brain' comments. It is a shame that Booth can identify when her rationality is a cover to cope with emotional issues in most other aspects of her life, like her mother's body showing up in limbo, but he cannot seem to see that her cover to hide her true feelings for him has always been her science. His attactiveness is reduced to bone ratio, his effectiveness as a partner is put down to her observation of his prior acts not her faith in his part in her life in the future, but the best one of all, she manages to say that he is a very good father but when looking at having a baby with him she removes the physical aspect but the comment Cam makes to Booth applies to Brennan also. It is doing it without doing it. Her desire to have his baby this way indicates her need to have a part of him.

None of this is groundbreaking. Hart Hanson has just stirred the pot a little. He has an actress this time who is not out there telling everyone she is only recurring on another show and maybe he has an open-ended contract with Winnick to stop that from happening again. No one took catfish seriously we knew she was gone before she even came. Hannah will go, or she will stay in a different capacity. She may be a Cam. I have my money on Cam as the sniper kill. Not that I want it, but it is the most logical choice given the way the season began. If Hannah hangs around then she will be a B&B shipper in time also and replace the recurring role that will be vacated by whomever dies.

General rambling. A little bit of sorting out my own brain. I hope some of this makes a little sense to somebody.

I can see the whole point of it being 'bad drama' for Booth to end things with Hannah only to go back into a holding pattern with Brennan... and I agree for the most part. I'm just thinking of the powers that be and that if they will NOT get B&B together this season, at least having them acknowledge those feelings to theselves (or others) will be moving forward. (And kinda of a logical step if Booth stops the whole running forward, trying to move on thing... kinda just realizes "hey, it's not enough, but I'm gonna have to take what I can get here cause no one else is gonna do it for me."... And then the writers can play with that scenario (welcome back angst and sexy looks and chemistry etc...) for a while as another 'stop-gap' Don't get me wrong, I'd rather 'go for broke' and move things forward more directly, and maybe they will do that this season....but I'm so used to the "baby steps" that I can't imagine them moving straight to a B&B w/ out some more emotional "steps" in between that and Hannah's exit.

I just truly hope they do NOT go the road of another SO for Brennan now, cause that will be icing on the "contrived" cake.

As a side note, I know it's been discussed before, but I truly truly truly hope they do not make Hannah the "victim" this season. That would majorly suck as her after effects would last and last.

The writers surely must move things along after this Hannah arc is (we hope) eventually over. If they're telling the truth and Booth "torpedos" his relationship with the oh so perfect Hannah it must eventually lead to something more with Bones. Whether there is a gap before that happens I don't know but for them to remain no better off at the end of the season but with Hannah now out of the picture then it's clear to me that they don't have a clue where this story is going and are just trying to desparately find ways to hold the inevitable off.

I also agree with the other poster who mourned the loss of Brennan's kick ass side from earlier series. She gradually became docile and reliant on Booth to protect her, sure this involved some nice moments between them but it appeared that the writers had forgotten she was licensed to carry a shotgun in 5 states (or something like that) and had a black belt in goodness knows how many marshal arts. Suddenly with Booth's intervention she became almost a hapless female in the face of danger.

With Booth now seemingly occupied with Hannah, I hope one good thing to come out of this is that Brennan discoveres her inner Xena Warrior Princesss and starts showing Booth she can stand on her own two feet if necessary. She's a strong, intelligent woman and Booths' overprotectiveness was smothering that.

Yeah, I'd like to see that side of her back. Of course Booth will view it that she's "taking risks" with her safety, and it's a "win/win"... cause I like seeing protective Booth too! But Brennan needs to do like she used to do and keep on pushing it even when Booth does show this side.

wonderwoman wrote:I think that Hart Hanson works to a formula. I see postings on here identifying connenctions between the cases and B&B. I think there is also a mirror affect in the other relationships on the show to B & B. Hodgela and B&B are very closely connected in their journey. Clark makes this startling comment to Brennan in the next episode after making a similar OOC comment to Hodgins last season that was basically saying 'Wake up!' I see Hannah as a Roxy or a Sully, a plot device. She serves a purpose for many of the characters. The focus has been on Brennan but I think she is more important to the character growth of Booth. At the outset it is eye candy value. A virile male lead is better than an impotent one, which he was most of Season 5. He did not even flirt with anyone in S5 and not even with Brennan (unless you count the flashback 100 and that awkward catfish moment). This is not good use of the good looking lead.

Booth is always trying to protect Brennan, but it is her energy and fearless attitude that he fell in love with. He tamed her in his coma dream and he seemed to tame her throughout Season 5. Her outfits and the general approach to everything was far more reserved. She became more talk and no action. The statement in the premiere "I find it interesting that I am only scared of snakes when Booth is there to be jumped on" is an indication of her character acknowledging her growing weakness around him. Not a lustful weakness at the knees but literally deferring to him to do the big manly physical stuff that she was never shy of doing for herself in the past or alone on the Maluku islands - fixing a car etc. S6 Brennan seems to be a hybrid of both kick ass S1 and reserved S5. She is finding there is a place for certain kinds of behaviour. This is something she will need for her future relationship with Booth.

But I have strayed from my point. Hannah was a wild reporter working on the frontline in IRAQ and to follow Seeley she settles for a job she said she would never take in DC. That conversation must have been had for him to acknowledge she said she would not take it. He is taming his new Brennan. I think he probably is smitten with her. Who wouldn't be, she is sexy and she is there and saying yes. He doesn't have to argue with her. She ultimately folds and lets him have his way. In the end for Booth he will discover she is too open vs Brennan's inability to open up (a challenge that strangely enough he desires more). Alternatively, the story-line could go that Hannah begins to feel trapped and feels the pull to go back to her adrenalin charged life and Booth realises he trapped her. A lesson about what not to do with Brennan. Either way Booth learns something that he will carry with him into his inevitable romantic relationship with Brennan.

As far as her 'love is just a chemical reaction in the brain' comments. It is a shame that Booth can identify when her rationality is a cover to cope with emotional issues in most other aspects of her life, like her mother's body showing up in limbo, but he cannot seem to see that her cover to hide her true feelings for him has always been her science. His attactiveness is reduced to bone ratio, his effectiveness as a partner is put down to her observation of his prior acts not her faith in his part in her life in the future, but the best one of all, she manages to say that he is a very good father but when looking at having a baby with him she removes the physical aspect but the comment Cam makes to Booth applies to Brennan also. It is doing it without doing it. Her desire to have his baby this way indicates her need to have a part of him.

None of this is groundbreaking. Hart Hanson has just stirred the pot a little. He has an actress this time who is not out there telling everyone she is only recurring on another show and maybe he has an open-ended contract with Winnick to stop that from happening again. No one took catfish seriously we knew she was gone before she even came. Hannah will go, or she will stay in a different capacity. She may be a Cam. I have my money on Cam as the sniper kill. Not that I want it, but it is the most logical choice given the way the season began. If Hannah hangs around then she will be a B&B shipper in time also and replace the recurring role that will be vacated by whomever dies.

General rambling. A little bit of sorting out my own brain. I hope some of this makes a little sense to somebody.

great post. it was very insightful. it makes a lot of sense to me because bones kind of does have a formula (though....it's easier to see after the fact than while it's happening) and hannah is just following that right now.

the quote "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome" really rings home to me about how booth and bones got to where they are now. If booth just came back....and fell right back into things with brennan and didn't give himself the chance to try and move on.....they would remain stagnant. It wouldn't go anywhere.

Thanks Tinkrella! I do think that sometimes things are exactly as they seem. The season ender was disappointing because we were looking for something to happen and it didn't - beyond what we read in the sides anyway. Sometimes it is what it is nothing more, nothing less.

From a writer's point of view if the fans weren't unsettled and crazy over this then they would have a problem. We are doing what we are supposed to. I believe Hart does have a plan and I believe he does not intend to get them together at the very last instant, too many shows have done that badly (JAG, Crossing Jordan and so on). I had expected him to go the way of the Kathy Reichs novels and get them together only to blow them apart. I may not be popular with this viewpoint but I appreciate something more when it isn't easy and I spoke out loud feeling for Tempe in the book when it happened. Hart wants us yelling at our TV's. Some of us go a little further and yell straight at him. The beauty of twitter hey?

For the most part I think Hart sees the possibility that this season has to be the one in case there are no more. I think he has probably done this each season since Season 4. If it is going to end he needs them building to a point where they finally break the tension. He does this beautifully and it is up to the last 8 we feel the build and depending on the new season being approved by the network we then see it fizzle or sit in the holding pattern. Season 5 had a fizzle after a long holding pattern. In part the writing comes down to what the network do and when they do it. If they would only tell him from the outset that he had 8 seasons and then he plans accordingly, but the problem is ratings and network bean counters do not allow him that leisure. He is not writing a novel or a movie where he is guaranteed his time, he is working with a number of balls in the air all the time. I think he does it well. I will keep watching. I was addicted to Alias before this. I was able to stand Melissa George swoop in as Vaughn's wife leaving Sydney broken hearted and vulnerable. That is a humdinger of SO storyline, this is a roll in the hay in comparison. Bring it on Hanson. I can take it.

I think that your comments are very incisive. However much we and Hanson would like to pretend it is all about the characters and their journey, this is a network show and ratings are all.

Dramatically I think something needs to happen if Hannah and Booth split up, which I assume will happen at some point this season - otherwise we are in real stalling territory and people will just get totally fed up.

I am sure Hanson is aware that he is walking a dangerous line. They need to get it right.