6x01 ~ The Mastodon in the Room ~ SHOW DISCUSSION

crzy4bones wrote:

treble21 wrote:

G wrote:And the Booth ass shot. Woo! hahaha He's still got it.

I don't think he'll ever lose it LOL

As long as that knee injury doesn't flare up on him like it did in S5 Angel and he gets all chunky again. LOL! ah..who the heck am I kidding..he still looked good. S6 Booth is looking good. Is it my imagination or are the suits a bit more fitted on him this season then they have been in the past? But thanks Ian for the gratuitous Booth butt shot

We all thank him!! lmao I like that the fitted suit is back. It helps when the guy who fits it is nice too!

G wrote:

THX1138 wrote:

G wrote:Do I dare go read the Inkslinger?

yeah, heck, give it a shot. Even ToZ said I'd toned my criticism down from last seasons. I'm trying a new approach, I'm not going to watch the show sober anymore. Deaden the pain centers and suddenly it's just that much more enjoyable!


RM

Are you as passionate about other shows as much as Bones? Or is it your favourite? Cause if it's your favourite, even though you're dis-enchanted with it, you still make the effort to watch, and take the time to write the Inkslinger, so there must be something about it that you like right?

Bones is my favorite. There have only been two other shows in recent memory I liked as much as Bones. The first was Chuck (S3 of Chuck killed that show for me), and the other was Firefly. The fact that Bones is the last one I've got probably accounts for a great deal of my passion towards the show. I keep looking but I just haven't found another show that inspires me to watch every week.

RM

THX1138 wrote:

G wrote:

THX1138 wrote:

G wrote:Do I dare go read the Inkslinger?

yeah, heck, give it a shot. Even ToZ said I'd toned my criticism down from last seasons. I'm trying a new approach, I'm not going to watch the show sober anymore. Deaden the pain centers and suddenly it's just that much more enjoyable!


RM

Are you as passionate about other shows as much as Bones? Or is it your favourite? Cause if it's your favourite, even though you're dis-enchanted with it, you still make the effort to watch, and take the time to write the Inkslinger, so there must be something about it that you like right?

Bones is my favorite. There have only been two other shows in recent memory I liked as much as Bones. The first was Chuck (S3 of Chuck killed that show for me), and the other was Firefly. The fact that Bones is the last one I've got probably accounts for a great deal of my passion towards the show. I keep looking but I just haven't found another show that inspires me to watch every week.

RM

I have Firefly sitting here waiting to be watched. But, that's going off topic.

A person named "Tessalover" posted this on the TWOP forum; it was the person's wish for what the first episode should have been. Have to admit it I agree with Tessalover.


"Here's one idea: Shot of a tent in the middle of the Maluku islands. Bones climbs out, stretches, starts to cook breakfast over a fire. Then Booth climbs out of the tent and joins her. They talk about how it took them so long to see that they're meant to be together...then Carolyn calls and they have to brainstorm about whether or not to tell the team that they're a couple. They decide to keep it quiet, and return to DC with a secret romance. Oh yeah, baby."

^ LOL "Wish" is right...


do not take this as me saying I don't think it will ever happen, I think it most definitely will... and you can quote me as saying I think it will be the season 6 finale ( of course this time last year, I'd have laid money on the season 5 finale) ...but given how they left the season last year, expecting that to actually occur in the premiere is definitely wishful thinking.

AmandaMarshall wrote:

joybrennan wrote:Brennan competes with Booth. I would say she's very literal, has some of the worst communication skills ever written, and can be really clueless. Competes with him? She's got him on as much of a pedastal as he has her. They're both a bit that way.

(Incidentally, Booth's communcation skills have gotten pretty bad over the last couple of years. Writing just basically sucks all around. )

Yes. Brennan competes with Booth. That was addressed very directly by Gordon Gordon/Stephen Fry in Priest in the Churchyard.

Agree writing has gotten really sucky.

Are you referring to the thing about Brennan wishing she could be inside Booth's head? IMO that was Frye talk was more about masking the fact that he knew Brennan was in love with Booth - and that she wasn't ready to handle it. She wanted to know how he did what he did - whatever he did - because she wanted to be immersed in his world, in him. Call it mental sex: she wanted have all that Booth was inside her.

I think Brennan has a lot of stuff and issues, things Booth could be mad about, but competing with Booth, IMO, isn't one of them. My biggest thing with her is not being clear with Booth that she wasn't trying to escape him, she needed space to figure some things about herself and him. Like I said - worst communication skills ever written - she's all over the map these days. The whole not talking to anyone for seven months is just LAZY on the part of the writers. Don't know why that surprises me.

treble21 wrote:^ LOL "Wish" is right...


do not take this as me saying I don't think it will ever happen, I think it most definitely will... and you can quote me as saying I think it will be the season 6 finale ( of course this time last year, I'd have laid money on the season 5 finale) ...but given how they left the season last year, expecting that to actually occur in the premiere is definitely wishful thinking.

Wishfu thinking, but it would have been a real unique premier - they did that entire ritual goodbye so that they could sneak off together in Maluka! They'd spread the rumor about the SO - season opens up and WHAMO - instant shock, surprise, originality, and something they could run with all seeason. Instead of Booth telling Sweets to move on he'd be like - "you should have just gone after her." Sweets: "oh, like you did with Dr. Brennan?" Booth: "hey, you are the one supposedly in love. If I HAD been in love with Bones I would have gone after . Just more proof that your book was WRONG."

Are you referring to the thing about Brennan wishing she could be inside Booth's head? IMO that was Frye talk was more about masking the fact that he knew Brennan was in love with Booth - and that she wasn't ready to handle it. She wanted to know how he did what he did - whatever he did - because she wanted to be immersed in his world, in him. Call it mental sex: she wanted have all that Booth was inside her.

I'm not sure it's actually competing but it does sometimes come off that way. I think she's pushy and ablivious at times that he has skills beyond shooting and running. Sometimes when people talk to him in early episodes she responds and he says, "I'm Booth". When he runs into a room she tries to run in front of him. Early episodes he voices his issues with that. Later episodes she enters the crime scenes first, does most of the looking around etc. That's something I see.

I think Gordon/Gordon said he thought she was trying to obtain his skills so she doesn't need him anymore.'

joybrennan wrote:

treble21 wrote:^ LOL "Wish" is right...


do not take this as me saying I don't think it will ever happen, I think it most definitely will... and you can quote me as saying I think it will be the season 6 finale ( of course this time last year, I'd have laid money on the season 5 finale) ...but given how they left the season last year, expecting that to actually occur in the premiere is definitely wishful thinking.

Wishfu thinking, but it would have been a real unique premier - they did that entire ritual goodbye so that they could sneak off together in Maluka! They'd spread the rumor about the SO - season opens up and WHAMO - instant shock, surprise, originality, and something they could run with all seeason. Instead of Booth telling Sweets to move on he'd be like - "you should have just gone after her." Sweets: "oh, like you did with Dr. Brennan?" Booth: "hey, you are the one supposedly in love. If I HAD been in love with Bones I would have gone after . Just more proof that your book was WRONG."

Didn't say it wouldn't be good, just that it was wishful thinking. Honestly if it had actually happened that way I might have been just a little bit pissed off, at not seeing what had led them to that point. Scratch that, I'd have been livid about not seeing what go them there... but if they threw in some flashbacks, sign me up.

lancelot wrote:

Are you referring to the thing about Brennan wishing she could be inside Booth's head? IMO that was Frye talk was more about masking the fact that he knew Brennan was in love with Booth - and that she wasn't ready to handle it. She wanted to know how he did what he did - whatever he did - because she wanted to be immersed in his world, in him. Call it mental sex: she wanted have all that Booth was inside her.

I'm not sure it's actually competing but it does sometimes come off that way. I think she's pushy and ablivious at times that he has skills beyond shooting and running. Sometimes when people talk to him in early episodes she responds and he says, "I'm Booth". When he runs into a room she tries to run in front of him. Early episodes he voices his issues with that. Later episodes she enters the crime scenes first, does most of the looking around etc. That's something I see.

I think Gordon/Gordon said he thought she was trying to obtain his skills so she doesn't need him anymore.'

I got that gist too, but it wasn't because she didn't want to need him anymore, but because of her fears of abandonment.

treble21 wrote:
I got that gist too, but it wasn't because she didn't want to need him anymore, but because of her fears of abandonment.

Then isn't it ironic that SHE ends up being the one who abandons him and their partnership? I know there are those who will argue that point with me, but she was the one that started on about not being sure that she wanted to deal with murder anymore in the episode prior to the finale and before the Army came looking for Booth.

treble21 wrote:

joybrennan wrote:

treble21 wrote:^ LOL "Wish" is right...


do not take this as me saying I don't think it will ever happen, I think it most definitely will... and you can quote me as saying I think it will be the season 6 finale ( of course this time last year, I'd have laid money on the season 5 finale) ...but given how they left the season last year, expecting that to actually occur in the premiere is definitely wishful thinking.

Wishful thinking, but it would have been a real unique premier - they did that entire ritual goodbye so that they could sneak off together in Maluka! They'd spread the rumor about the SO - season opens up and WHAMO - instant shock, surprise, originality, and something they could run with all seeason. Instead of Booth telling Sweets to move on he'd be like - "you should have just gone after her." Sweets: "oh, like you did with Dr. Brennan?" Booth: "hey, you are the one supposedly in love. If I HAD been in love with Bones I would have gone after . Just more proof that your book was WRONG."

Didn't say it wouldn't be good, just that it was wishful thinking. Honestly if it had actually happened that way I might have been just a little bit pissed off, at not seeing what had led them to that point. Scratch that, I'd have been livid about not seeing what go them there... but if they threw in some flashbacks, sign me up.

Wasn't trying to say that you were...I was, I thought, agreeing with you and playing even more with idea. Hmmm....maybe there IS a reason I always come up as Brennan on those quizes...

crzy4bones wrote:

treble21 wrote:
I got that gist too, but it wasn't because she didn't want to need him anymore, but because of her fears of abandonment.

Then isn't it ironic that SHE ends up being the one who abandons him and their partnership? I know there are those who will argue that point with me, but she was the one that started on about not being sure that she wanted to deal with murder anymore in the episode prior to the finale and before the Army came looking for Booth.

she turned him down because she felt that if they "gave it a shot" and it ended badly they'd never even be friends again, at least this way they are still friends and partners.... but again as joy pointed out awhile ago this particular discussion is circular.

crzy4bones wrote:

treble21 wrote:
I got that gist too, but it wasn't because she didn't want to need him anymore, but because of her fears of abandonment.

Then isn't it ironic that SHE ends up being the one who abandons him and their partnership? I know there are those who will argue that point with me, but she was the one that started on about not being sure that she wanted to deal with murder anymore in the episode pnnjnrior to the finale and before the Army came looking for Booth.

She'd been having nightmares of everyone she loved dying and being unable to save them, and had that entire buried alive thing brought back up in her pysche. If she HADN'T started
questioning what she was doing I'd be questioning her sanity. Booth knows about the nightmares and the specifics of them. He even suggested she needed a vacation. Point being, I don't think it's completely fair to say she was just "abandoning" Booth and their partnership. Booth may have felt that way, which is why he assumed she'd made the decision to go without talking to him about it. She DIDN'T do that. I get that the character of Booth may have felt that way due to his own issues, but with everything going on for Brennan, I think any shrink would say she needed a break.

I am well aware we have irreconcilable differences of opinion on this issue. We should probably just leave it at that.

There seems to be a whole lot of projection of feelings on to Brennan around here. I am probably as guilty of that as anyone. That may be why I don't like burdening her with all these childhood traumas to explain poor social skills and make her bad behavior seem more socially acceptable and ultimately harder to overcome -- not to mention less funny in the overcoming. Old screwball comedies often made the hard knocks education of their heroes and heroines mostly amusing although very sexist by today's standards.

Actually, they both have childhood traumas up the wazoo, and both are affected by it. Booth isn't a rescuer because of his idealistic childhood. However, that wasn't what we were talking about. Brennan had major job burnout going on - I wasn't even talking about the mess of her personal life. Before, she dealt with violent death in bursts - six weeks here, two months there, with breaks to do other things inbetween. She now deals with every day, for the past five years, has nearly died being buried alive, and, unlike before, has been in one place long enough to develop attachments. These issues aren't about childhood anything.

AmandaMarshall wrote:There seems to be a whole lot of projection of feelings on to Brennan

I agree with that. Even the other characters are projecting feelings on her but she is not acting that way. She is clearly acting as though she doesn't want a romantic relationship with him - even in this episode. She says to Angela, "This is what Booth wants, I'm happy for him." It think she's going to find that him having what he wants (a serious relationship) will effect her having what she wants (his time and attention). It's not going to work.

lancelot wrote:

AmandaMarshall wrote:There seems to be a whole lot of projection of feelings on to Brennan

I agree with that. Even the other characters are projecting feelings on her but she is not acting that way. She is clearly acting as though she doesn't want a romantic relationship with him - even in this episode. She says to Angela, "This is what Booth wants, I'm happy for him." It think she's going to find that him having what he wants (a serious relationship) will effect her having what she wants (his time and attention). It's not going to work.

Very insightful. And, it is not only Booth who will be less available to her but also Angela. This could be a very interesting season for Brennan.

lancelot wrote:

AmandaMarshall wrote:There seems to be a whole lot of projection of feelings on to Brennan

I agree with that. Even the other characters are projecting feelings on her but she is not acting that way. She is clearly acting as though she doesn't want a romantic relationship with him - even in this episode. She says to Angela, "This is what Booth wants, I'm happy for him." It think she's going to find that him having what he wants (a serious relationship) will effect her having what she wants (his time and attention). It's not going to work.

Brennan only ACTS the way she feels when she's completely backed into a corner. Doesn't mean she's not feeling. Take, for instance, the trial of her dad. She tells everyone her dad is guilty, deserves to goto jail, and she's fine with it all - then finds a way to get him off. Or in
the girl in the fridge, she is completely cool and rational on the stand, until Booth finds a way to access what she truly FEELS. The other characters aren't projecting on her - they KNOW her. It's people who DON'T know her that only see her Iceland surface and are unaware of the volcano underneath.

...but it's still logic that turns her. Booth taps into that logic. All I'm saying is that for Brennan to get with Booth it needs to make logical sense. Right now she thinks it's illogical to be with him romantically because it will eventually ruin their relationship. When she sees there's a fault to her logic (which there is) things will change.

I actually like her logical nature. I think the interesting thing about this show is that everyone has such different opinions and can back them up with episodes, lines etc. That's what makes it fun.

lancelot wrote:
...but it's still logic that turns her. Booth taps into that logic. All I'm saying is that for Brennan to get with Booth it needs to make logical sense. Right now she thinks it's illogical to be with him romantically because it will eventually ruin their relationship. When she sees there's a fault to her logic (which there is) things will change.

I actually like her logical nature. I think the interesting thing about this show is that everyone has such different opinions and can back them up with episodes, lines etc. That's what makes it fun.

The above is very different from saying Brennan doesn't HAVE feelings and that people are projecting feelings onto her. VERY different. I can agree with the idea that Brennan doesn't see any logic in telling Booth how she feels because he's in love with someone else. However; that same logic will also keep her away from Booth if/when he doesn't have time for her. She loves him and would do anything for him. If his new relationship means he no longer has time for her - she will be VERY hurt, but silent to Booth about it, and not try to have more time with him. She DOES want him to be happy, so she won't do anything that she sees as upsetting that happiness. So basically, unless Booth notices and does something, this could go on forever.

Th

Here I go again---strictly my interpretation

Brennan: a genius, socially awkward her entire life, she excelled academically in school, but struggled socially and was not accepted by peers even before her parents left.(evidenced by "Marco Polo" story and comments in "Death of the Queen Bee).
Suddenly finds herself alone and in the foster system, social issues exacerbated because of the added stigma being abandoned.
How does she cope---retreat into the world of academia. Become more of a social outcast and begin to use denial as a coping mechanism. Being the genius that she is, she is able to do this over the years quite efficiently. Fears of abandonment and misreading social situations continue to plague her through adulthood and continue to color how she interacts with the world. Her chosen method of coping is denial, which is the most inefficient.

Enter Booth: A man with a past and his own baggage, but one who lives in the emotional world. He relies on instinct, which basically draws him to her. She grounds him and he makes her feel. He makes her face her emotions. He won't let her deny her feelings and helps her through many situations until his coma. He wakes up the same, but different. He is unsure and stuck in fantasy. He starts looking at Brennan through his dream, although he will deny it, and subconsciously wants her to be that woman.

She begins to let people into her inner circle, even without realizing it. Her coping mechanisms begin to break down as she cannot deny her feelings--consciously, she still tries, but they invade her subconscious. So she does what she does best, retreat and regroup only this time, other people are involved.

The confrontation: Brennan was the one being honest. She was not ready and Booth deep down knows it. He was not asking "Bones" to give him a chance but "Bren". Had he been honest, he would have told her that she didn't need to change, not agree quickly and talk about moving on. "The Boy with the Answer"(probably my favorite episode of S5) showed the breaking point of the good doctor exceptionally. She was an emotional wreck.

The reunion: Here we go again. Brennan has changed and seems to be more comfortable with her emotions--to a point--has addressed her professional goals, but is still far behind in the emotional area. Booth has let his anger get the best of him. He is angry(comment about not keeping in touch with him) with Brennan and has tried to move on. When she was far away, it was easy--Out of sight, out of mind. Now, they're back, working together, but...we'll see. Enough ramblings for the day.

bonesfan158 wrote:Here I go again---strictly my interpretation

Brennan: a genius, socially awkward her entire life, she excelled academically in school, but struggled socially and was not accepted by peers even before her parents left.(evidenced by "Marco Polo" story and comments in "Death of the Queen Bee).
Suddenly finds herself alone and in the foster system, social issues exacerbated because of the added stigma being abandoned.
How does she cope---retreat into the world of academia. Become more of a social outcast and begin to use denial as a coping mechanism. Being the genius that she is, she is able to do this over the years quite efficiently. Fears of abandonment and misreading social situations continue to plague her through adulthood and continue to color how she interacts with the world. Her chosen method of coping is denial, which is the most inefficient.

Enter Booth: A man with a past and his own baggage, but one who lives in the emotional world. He relies on instinct, which basically draws him to her. She grounds him and he makes her feel. He makes her face her emotions. He won't let her deny her feelings and helps her through many situations until his coma. He wakes up the same, but different. He is unsure and stuck in fantasy. He starts looking at Brennan through his dream, although he will deny it, and subconsciously wants her to be that woman.

She begins to let people into her inner circle, even without realizing it. Her coping mechanisms begin to break down as she cannot deny her feelings--consciously, she still tries, but they invade her subconscious. So she does what she does best, retreat and regroup only this time, other people are involved.

The confrontation: Brennan was the one being honest. She was not ready and Booth deep down knows it. He was not asking "Bones" to give him a chance but "Bren". Had he been honest, he would have told her that she didn't need to change, not agree quickly and talk about moving on. "The Boy with the Answer"(probably my favorite episode of S5) showed the breaking point of the good doctor exceptionally. She was an emotional wreck.

The reunion: Here we go again. Brennan has changed and seems to be more comfortable with her emotions--to a point--has addressed her professional goals, but is still far behind in the emotional area. Booth has let his anger get the best of him. He is angry(comment about not keeping in touch with him) with Brennan and has tried to move on. When she was far away, it was easy--Out of sight, out of mind. Now, they're back, working together, but...we'll see. Enough ramblings for the day.

bonesfan158 wrote:Here I go again---strictly my interpretation

Brennan: a genius, socially awkward her entire life, she excelled academically in school, but struggled socially and was not accepted by peers even before her parents left.(evidenced by "Marco Polo" story and comments in "Death of the Queen Bee).
Suddenly finds herself alone and in the foster system, social issues exacerbated because of the added stigma being abandoned.
How does she cope---retreat into the world of academia. Become more of a social outcast and begin to use denial as a coping mechanism. Being the genius that she is, she is able to do this over the years quite efficiently. Fears of abandonment and misreading social situations continue to plague her through adulthood and continue to color how she interacts with the world. Her chosen method of coping is denial, which is the most inefficient.

Enter Booth: A man with a past and his own baggage, but one who lives in the emotional world. He relies on instinct, which basically draws him to her. She grounds him and he makes her feel. He makes her face her emotions. He won't let her deny her feelings and helps her through many situations until his coma. He wakes up the same, but different. He is unsure and stuck in fantasy. He starts looking at Brennan through his dream, although he will deny it, and subconsciously wants her to be that woman.

She begins to let people into her inner circle, even without realizing it. Her coping mechanisms begin to break down as she cannot deny her feelings--consciously, she still tries, but they invade her subconscious. So she does what she does best, retreat and regroup only this time, other people are involved.

The confrontation: Brennan was the one being honest. She was not ready and Booth deep down knows it. He was not asking "Bones" to give him a chance but "Bren". Had he been honest, he would have told her that she didn't need to change, not agree quickly and talk about moving on. "The Boy with the Answer"(probably my favorite episode of S5) showed the breaking point of the good doctor exceptionally. She was an emotional wreck.

The reunion: Here we go again. Brennan has changed and seems to be more comfortable with her emotions--to a point--has addressed her professional goals, but is still far behind in the emotional area. Booth has let his anger get the best of him. He is angry(comment about not keeping in touch with him) with Brennan and has tried to move on. When she was far away, it was easy--Out of sight, out of mind. Now, they're back, working together, but...we'll see. Enough ramblings for the day.

Brilliant!!

joybrennan wrote:

lancelot wrote:
...but it's still logic that turns her. Booth taps into that logic. All I'm saying is that for Brennan to get with Booth it needs to make logical sense. Right now she thinks it's illogical to be with him romantically because it will eventually ruin their relationship. When she sees there's a fault to her logic (which there is) things will change.

I actually like her logical nature. I think the interesting thing about this show is that everyone has such different opinions and can back them up with episodes, lines etc. That's what makes it fun.

The above is very different from saying Brennan doesn't HAVE feelings and that people are projecting feelings onto her. VERY different. I can agree with the idea that Brennan doesn't see any logic in telling Booth how she feels because he's in love with someone else. However; that same logic will also keep her away from Booth if/when he doesn't have time for her. She loves him and would do anything for him. If his new relationship means he no longer has time for her - she will be VERY hurt, but silent to Booth about it, and not try to have more time with him. She DOES want him to be happy, so she won't do anything that she sees as upsetting that happiness. So basically, unless Booth notices and does something, this could go on forever.

Th

I most definitely think Brennan has feelings. I'm probably not explaining myself correctly. When I say projecting their feelings on her I mean they may not be Brennan's feelings. Brennan may have different feelings. Just like when Sweets projects his feelings on Booth. They're more about Sweets than Booth.

I think Brennan's actually slowly addressing what's really going on in her brain this season. I love her in the last 2 episodes.