OMG! WHY DIDN'T I NOTICE BEFORE!?

THX1138 wrote:

ForensicMama wrote:
To clarify what I was saying, it would have to take TWO different alarm clocks to show two different time formats. That, combined with the title: The END in the BEGINNING, along with a ton of other theories found in this thread: [Only admins are allowed to see this link] lead me to believe that there is a time jump.

1. First scene where B&B make love is a future and REAL scene. Standard alarm clock time: 4:47. (This represents the END... the last B/B scene to ever air. A real representation of the B/B future.)
2. Second scene where the alarm clock is Military Time: 0543 is where the "story/dream" begin.
3. Last scene where Brennan is typing and Booth wakes up: Current B/B time. (This represents the BEGINNING of the Booth/Brennan romance.)

(These are my theories, at least.)

w00t!! I hope you're right Mama, and you know how hard I've been on HH and the finale, it's not among my favorite things, but what you're saying does seem to jibe with HH's tweets on "the scene". I'm not quite ready to do the 'mea culpa' samba yet, but it is looking like a masterful head fake by HH. Maybe a little too masterful if it had so many longtime fans (like myself) screaming for his head on a plate for the last five days.

From your lips to God's ears, Mama.

Robert Modean

ForensicMama wrote:FINALE TALK! AND MIND-BLOWINGNESS BEHIND THE CUT!
IT WAS REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Finale sex scene!

1st shot of the alarm clock: 4:47 STANDARD time.
2nd shot of the alarm clock: 0543 MILITARY time!

WHICH SUPPORTS THE THEORY that this is the REAL Booth & Brennan having sex in the future some time. It supports everything that HH has said. It supports everything and it wasn't just HH being crafty with his answers and the interviewers having only asked the wrong questions. IT'S REAL BOOTH/BRENNAN SEX OMG! OMG! OMG!

It also explains the title: The END in the BEGINNING. As in the very last scene of their relationship--together, her wearing a ring, him telling her he loves her, her asking if she loves him, etc--In other words, it was the LAST scene of their relationship to air on this show (set in the future of course) being aired in the episode that Booth and Brennan first began to recognize their feelings for one another--where Brennan decided she was in love with him. OH MY GOD. O.O

Turi ray of sunshine wrote:and ONE MORE THING!!! HONESTLY which one of us was paying attention to the clock when you have BOOTH shirtless on bed and we get a FANTASTIC view of those bare broad shoulders!!!

RGPageantqueen wrote:
So wait... I'm a wee bit confused, are you saying that the very last scene of the show ever was that scene? Cause if thats how it ends, I'm done, I want more than that. Especially if it ends with her telling him she's pregnant.

I am so confused right now, can someone break it down for the village idiot?

THX1138 wrote:

Turi ray of sunshine wrote:and ONE MORE THING!!! HONESTLY which one of us was paying attention to the clock when you have BOOTH shirtless on bed and we get a FANTASTIC view of those bare broad shoulders!!!

Wait, Booth was in there? I mean, the last thing I remember Brennan was climbing into bed, her shirt came off and voom! Wait, I forgot to seperate fantasy from reality again didn't I? Oops. Damn. And I really liked that dream. Especially the bit where she got all nekkid and sweaty... Ah shoot.

RM

THX1138 wrote:

RGPageantqueen wrote:
So wait... I'm a wee bit confused, are you saying that the very last scene of the show ever was that scene? Cause if thats how it ends, I'm done, I want more than that. Especially if it ends with her telling him she's pregnant.

I am so confused right now, can someone break it down for the village idiot?

Well I think that's what Mama's saying, I'm not sure if I'm 100% on board with that being the last scene in the series though. The way I interpret it now is the sex scene was real, it was a flash forward seen that takes place during end of the series, not really the final scene of the series itself. It can be interpreted as The End of the series in the beginning of the S4 finale, or it could be interpreted as the end of their single lives before they get married and the beginning of their relationship. (feeding off the speculation about the rings there)

Whichever route you choose, despair not. There's a lot to go on during S5 and S6 to get us there. First of all we're going to have Booth and Brennan in a committed relationship, and since they're engaged (or at least I think they are given the ring thing) I imagine that the sex scene we see here isn't the first time we'll see them in bed together. I mean, the show just got renewed for two more years and after the season four finale, which is now looking like a masterful headfake, and I'm betting HH is going to be flexible enough that we'll get plenty of good shipper material between now and then. I can see dating drama, living together drama, marriage drama, baby drama, whole lotta drama in our future. So don't cash out yet.

Robert Modean

RGPageantqueen wrote:
I don't want it to end like her telling him she's pregnant in the last scene, you know. Cause I want to see her dealing with pregnancy (maybe in season 6) in her work place, drama with her lover Booth. I don't want it to end at "I'm pregnant" the end. End of series, cause I would feel cheated....

I won't give up on it, I just want it to really delve into the baby thing, the love between them, then getting engaged, getting married, all of that while being work partners. I just think if it goes according to the dream sequence than it would end with him finding out she's pregnant. I really don't want that....

THX1138 wrote:

RGPageantqueen wrote:
I don't want it to end like her telling him she's pregnant in the last scene, you know. Cause I want to see her dealing with pregnancy (maybe in season 6) in her work place, drama with her lover Booth. I don't want it to end at "I'm pregnant" the end. End of series, cause I would feel cheated....

Well the more I think on it there's another possible interpretation to The End in The Beginning. The sex scene is takes place when they're established as a couple, but we're jumping to the conclusion as to what "The End" is. It could mark the end of the end of their surrogate relationship and the beginning of their real relationship, and we all know how HH likes to have double meanings, and references in his shows, so the end of their surrogate relationship (which would occur in S5) is shown in the beginning of the S4 finale. That would work with everything we think will happen in S5 and leave us all of S6 and maybe a S7 for Brennan and Booth to move in together, get pregnant, get married, have a kid (in that order since I doubt they'll do it the 'right way', since they never do).

I won't give up on it, I just want it to really delve into the baby thing, the love between them, then getting engaged, getting married, all of that while being work partners. I just think if it goes according to the dream sequence than it would end with him finding out she's pregnant. I really don't want that....

Yeah, I tend to look at the dream sequence not so much a foreshadowing of what is to come but a glimpse into their hearts at what they wish could be. In this case they both want to be together, married, expecting a child. What we'll get in the next two seasons I don't know, hopefully it'll mirror that but with a more satisfying resolution.

RM

RGPageantqueen wrote:
They do nothing right, but do we think that Brennan will actually give into everything she stands against? I mean we got the baby thats score one, but do you think she will give into a marriage? I always thought she doesn't want to get married because she never met the right man and that with Booth she feels like this is the right man and will start looking at marriage as not archaic (which i found as an excuse for her lack of wedding ring and husband) but a beautiful thing. I think that deep deep down inside her theres a little shell sitting in the bottom of her heart just waiting to be opened and exposed to the world. But with everything she's been through and the fact that every boyfriend she ever had was nothing compared to Booth she was too afraid to break that shell and now that she's found that after 4 years Booth has been there for her despite everything that would have most guys running for the door, that little chick is starting to break the shell and welcome a new life (of love) into the world. I think deep down she's very much like Angela, but Angela was always open to the idea of all that, when Brennan was more stand-offish due to her circumstances.

I do hope that it will have a more in depth story on their journey together as a couple, with a child, being partners, I would love to see a murder in which all the signs point to Brennan and how Booth handles the fact that she could have killed someone (I'm thinking Jared would be good based on their past and the fact that it's Booth's brother, very touchy) I would love to see the gravedigger capture Both Booth and Brennan together and them together, realizing that maybe they are going to die and how they handle the fact that they are the last person they will see and what that could unravel. Plus I'd like to see how Angela and Temperance became friends. Oh and we can't forget Hodgela!!!!!! HAHA!

Do these ideas sound good or too cheesy?

THX1138 wrote:

RGPageantqueen wrote:
They do nothing right, but do we think that Brennan will actually give into everything she stands against? I mean we got the baby thats score one, but do you think she will give into a marriage? I always thought she doesn't want to get married because she never met the right man and that with Booth she feels like this is the right man and will start looking at marriage as not archaic (which i found as an excuse for her lack of wedding ring and husband) but a beautiful thing. I think that deep deep down inside her theres a little shell sitting in the bottom of her heart just waiting to be opened and exposed to the world. But with everything she's been through and the fact that every boyfriend she ever had was nothing compared to Booth she was too afraid to break that shell and now that she's found that after 4 years Booth has been there for her despite everything that would have most guys running for the door, that little chick is starting to break the shell and welcome a new life (of love) into the world. I think deep down she's very much like Angela, but Angela was always open to the idea of all that, when Brennan was more stand-offish due to her circumstances.

IMO it's not so much that she's been waiting for the right man, in fact I think it's more deeply seated than that. I think much of Brennan's principled disavowal of things like marriage, monogamy, and child bearing are born not out of any well reasoned or logical argument, but the abandonment by her parents. Max and Ruth/Christine were her exemplars for marriage, relationships, love, parenthood. Brennan loved her mother and father utterly, trusted them unconditionally, believed in them totally. How did they reward her devotion? What did they teach her? That emotions are ephemeral, that bonds of love and blood can be broken and discarded as easily as a used tissue, that loving someone means pain, that parents will abandon their children, that they lie to you, that you can depend on no one except yourself. If that's not bad enough she goes into foster care and each and every lesson she learned is reinforced and new ones are added like people aren't to be trusted and they'll use you for their own benefit and she's worthless.

Angela helped prepare the groundwork for Booth, but it's taken someone of Booth's character, charm, determination, and honesty to actually make her re-evaluate the lessons her past has taught her. Booth has shown her that he can be trusted, he won't lie to her, he won't abandon her, that there's more than one kind of family. More than that he's given her back her real family, given her back her mother, given her closure, taught her that she's valued and loved. He's slowly undoing the damage done and I think as they progress we'll see her walls, and objections, to things like marriage fall by the wayside. They aren't real in the first place, just contrived defense mechanisms to protect her heart. If she can trust Booth with her heart she doesn't need them anymore.

I do hope that it will have a more in depth story on their journey together as a couple, with a child, being partners, I would love to see a murder in which all the signs point to Brennan and how Booth handles the fact that she could have killed someone (I'm thinking Jared would be good based on their past and the fact that it's Booth's brother, very touchy) I would love to see the gravedigger capture Both Booth and Brennan together and them together, realizing that maybe they are going to die and how they handle the fact that they are the last person they will see and what that could unravel. Plus I'd like to see how Angela and Temperance became friends. Oh and we can't forget Hodgela!!!!!! HAHA!

Do these ideas sound good or too cheesy?

I think they sound great. I'd like to see them evolve into a couple next season, complete with the stresses of seeing two good friends move on to the next level, the debates over real relationship issues such as moving in together, and the like. Also a case where Brennan is the suspect is overdue since it was first posited in the Verdict. Brennan is very capable of murder under the right circumstances, imagine someone threatening Booth and they're in a relationship, could Brennan murder for Booth? I think most definitely. Jared has to be dealt with, as does Sully, and I'm of the mind that Angela and Jack need to move farther apart before they can come back together. They're still both in rebound territory - that and Angela needs to realize that she can't live in the moment forever, if she does all she has is the present and the past, no future.


RM

RGPageantqueen wrote:
Such indepth conclusions you have drawn, I think Sweets would be very proud. I hope that Sweets will show Brennan if not by his own verbal words but by the words and thoughts that he expresses in his book, will somewhat mirror what you have concluded here. I agree that her parents abandoning her showed her that nothing in this world is forever, nothing in this world is true, and that people will hurt you when they get that chance. I think also that she is afraid that she will be a bad mom because she doesn't know what a mom is supposed to do. She had her mom for only 15 short years, 10 of which were from a little kids perspective (how much do you remember being under 10) and 5 of that 10 was from a babies perspective (again, most of us don't remember being under 5) So really she has roughly 5 years of motherly knowledge. I think she fears that she will abandon her own child and leave that child to live a life like she did. However, I think she should strive to show her child and herself that she isn't her mother and that she can be a great mom, after all, Booth believes it.

Yeah, Brennan will definitely kill for Booth and he will for her. Sully hasn't been around for 2 years and I think he won't come back, But Jared, though he is leaving for India, there was talk about a love triangle. and Jared isn't fully over her yet. I think there could be grounds for a jared murder and a good storyline about how Booth will handle the fact that Brennan killed his own brother for him. Why she woould kill him and the purpose that his death would serve, I don't know. but I would like to see how being pinned for a murder that is close to the heart will affect their love relationship, their work relationship, their friendship and their trust for the other person. It would add a completely different dynamic to the show.

Also, I agree, I think Angela and Hodgins need to be separated from each other in order to grow in their relationship. I don't know what has to happen for Angela to realize that living in the moment isn't the best way to live...

i should be a writer for this show... How can I go about doing that?

THX1138 wrote:

RGPageantqueen wrote:
Such indepth conclusions you have drawn, I think Sweets would be very proud. I hope that Sweets will show Brennan if not by his own verbal words but by the words and thoughts that he expresses in his book, will somewhat mirror what you have concluded here. I agree that her parents abandoning her showed her that nothing in this world is forever, nothing in this world is true, and that people will hurt you when they get that chance. I think also that she is afraid that she will be a bad mom because she doesn't know what a mom is supposed to do. She had her mom for only 15 short years, 10 of which were from a little kids perspective (how much do you remember being under 10) and 5 of that 10 was from a babies perspective (again, most of us don't remember being under 5) So really she has roughly 5 years of motherly knowledge. I think she fears that she will abandon her own child and leave that child to live a life like she did. However, I think she should strive to show her child and herself that she isn't her mother and that she can be a great mom, after all, Booth believes it.

I agree that part and parcel to her resistance to child bearing was the thought that she might be a bad mother and she could do to her child what her mother and father did to her, abandon him/her. I think Booth's reassurance that she'll be a good mother and the constancy his presence represents has given her a chance to rethink having children. However what I think really brought about the whole 'I want a baby' thing from Brennan was the growing realization that she was in love with Booth. Of course this terrified her because lesson one, all emotions are ephemeral and lesson two, everyone who loves her leaves her. BUT she knows Booth would never abandon his child - she's learned that from observing his behavior toward Parker, so logically having Booth's child would guarantee that the man she loves would stay involved in her life for ever. From Brennan's 'rational' point of view it's a twofer, she gets Booth and a baby without exposing herself to the risk of rejection.

-Exactly what Angela said. But i think that as her love for him blossoms wouldn't she realize that even if there were no children in question he would still be there for her? He's proven that numerous times over the last four years. After all, yeah he would be in his kids life and that was the last thing he said to Brennan- getting what she wanted, exactly what you said, he said he can't just give her a child and not be in it's life and if what you say is true, than I should be hearing game show bells going off that she got exactly what she wanted- BUT! look at his relationship to Rebecca, non-existant besides the fact that he is her son's father. So rationally speaking, if thats how she wants to look at it, than it's reasonable that she bring their relationship into it. If she has his baby, how long will it be before their relationship is non-existant? To the point where the child is affected by separation. But I see what you are saying.

Yeah, Brennan will definitely kill for Booth and he will for her. Sully hasn't been around for 2 years and I think he won't come back, But Jared, though he is leaving for India, there was talk about a love triangle. and Jared isn't fully over her yet. I think there could be grounds for a jared murder and a good storyline about how Booth will handle the fact that Brennan killed his own brother for him. Why she woould kill him and the purpose that his death would serve, I don't know. but I would like to see how being pinned for a murder that is close to the heart will affect their love relationship, their work relationship, their friendship and their trust for the other person. It would add a completely different dynamic to the show.

Jared has to be addressed, love triangle and all, but I don't see Brennan ever falling in love with Jared, she knows how badly that would hurt Booth. Sully, on the other hand, well as the old saw goes 'absence makes the heart grow fonder' right? Imagine this, Jared makes a hard and fast play for Brennan, it fails but stirs things up between Booth and Brennan, jealousy can be a bitch, then Sully comes back after two plus years away. Now Brennan, who's probably at her wits end with men named Booth, has a pleasant reminder of simpler times with a guy that really loved her. Tension much? Toss in a murder where Sully is the suspect and Brennan is defending him against Booth and you've got a really juicy story.

- Hm, I like that, I do think that Sully should come back to stir up some trouble. Though I'm not sure if at this point, Brennan really knows that her falling in love with his little brother will actually bring Jealousy to Booth. I don't know... Maybe.

Also, I agree, I think Angela and Hodgins need to be separated from each other in order to grow in their relationship. I don't know what has to happen for Angela to realize that living in the moment isn't the best way to live...

I think for Angela it's a defense mechanism. In S1 we found out that she didn't have a lot of time with her father growing up and she only came to form a close bond with him later, it's why Christmas together, just the two of them, was so important to her. A child of Angela's temperament exposed to that kind of emotional insecurity for so long would learn not to value long term plans or to count on things in the future, instead they'd learn to make the most of the here and now, just as Angela's done. Like Brennan, Angela needs someone patient enough to show her that the they can be counted on to be there in the future, that she can look forward to things with someone and not fear disappointment. Jack needs to take a page out of Booth's playbook and settle in for the long haul.

- Yes, But hasn't hodgins always been there for her? They haven't really delved into this storyline too much, but I think that because t hey work together, she can still run to him when she needs to. I think he loves her and knows she needs space as well as guidance. I think he will see how Booth did it with Brennan see them b lossom and realize thats what he should do with Angela... A lesson from big brother.

i should be a writer for this show... How can I go about doing that?

Hey, you got my vote. And if you find out how let me know, I've got some script ideas I'm itching to drop on HH, plus they could use a new continuity guru. The guy from S4 sucked.

RM

RGPageantqueen wrote:
Exactly what Angela said. But i think that as her love for him blossoms wouldn't she realize that even if there were no children in question he would still be there for her? He's proven that numerous times over the last four years. After all, yeah he would be in his kids life and that was the last thing he said to Brennan- getting what she wanted, exactly what you said, he said he can't just give her a child and not be in it's life and if what you say is true, than I should be hearing game show bells going off that she got exactly what she wanted- BUT! look at his relationship to Rebecca, non-existant besides the fact that he is her son's father. So rationally speaking, if thats how she wants to look at it, than it's reasonable that she bring their relationship into it. If she has his baby, how long will it be before their relationship is non-existant? To the point where the child is affected by separation. But I see what you are saying.

Hm, I like that, I do think that Sully should come back to stir up some trouble. Though I'm not sure if at this point, Brennan really knows that her falling in love with his little brother will actually bring Jealousy to Booth. I don't know... Maybe.

RGPageantqueen wrote:You only started watching in Season 4? Wow, you are smart for only really having started watching, when a lot of us have invested 4 years in this show. I can't believe it's been that long... Maybe I'll twitter Hart and ask him how to be a show writer.... I'm sure living in California would be helpful... I'll move in with Emily.

RGPageantqueen wrote:I don't remember the con man episode. I mean in regards to how her dating his brother affected him.

Sorry, I misunderstood, it happens often... Do i lose cuteness points for that?

I think with Rebecca she knows its mostly her fault for pushing him away, but whose to say she won't eventually push Booth away. What if Booth pushes her away but doesn't want to lose his kid. Okay, I'm stretching... But i think she still has that fear, that theres that possibility, and Booth doesn't really try hard to build a relationship with Rebecca- and why would he when he has Bones- But she takes everything she sees literally and doesn't see the psychology behind what is going on. She just sees one thing and takes it at face value and that affects her choices in life.

Man, Temperance is a complex character.... I love her!

THX1138 wrote:

RGPageantqueen wrote:I don't remember the con man episode. I mean in regards to how her dating his brother affected him.

At the start of the episode Jared needed a date for a gala and tapped Cam, Booth could have cared less, then when Cam bailed Brennan volunteered, she wanted to date Jared because he was a Booth (she was looking for insight into her Booth, plus she found him attractive). Cam, Angela, and Sweets all told her NOT to day Jared because A) he wasn't the real Booth, he was Booth-lite, and B) They knew it would hurt Booth.

Sorry, I misunderstood, it happens often... Do i lose cuteness points for that?

You lose cuteness points? Never, not possible.

I think with Rebecca she knows its mostly her fault for pushing him away, but whose to say she won't eventually push Booth away. What if Booth pushes her away but doesn't want to lose his kid. Okay, I'm stretching... But i think she still has that fear, that theres that possibility, and Booth doesn't really try hard to build a relationship with Rebecca- and why would he when he has Bones- But she takes everything she sees literally and doesn't see the psychology behind what is going on. She just sees one thing and takes it at face value and that affects her choices in life.

Man, Temperance is a complex character.... I love her!

Heh, yep, that's why I love her too. Nothing more attractive to me than a complex, confident, empowered woman, wilting violets are for men wimps.

RM

RGPageantqueen wrote:Am I a wilting violet? LOL

Didn't Booth tell her not to date him? He put up an argument didn't he, or is that in my mind?

THX wrote:If he gets Brennan does he need to be married to her? Shouldn't just being in a committed relationship with her be enough for him? It'd work for me.

DBCrazy wrote:

THX wrote:If he gets Brennan does he need to be married to her? Shouldn't just being in a committed relationship with her be enough for him? It'd work for me.

Booth might very well settle for that, but that wouldn't be his ideal scene.

Booth is a believer: God, family and country. And he has a very strong sense of right and wrong. He might not think living with the woman he loves in a committed relationship is wrong, but he would believe that being married to her is right!