Douchebag moment of the series?

THX1138 wrote:

CanadianBones wrote:Yeah, I didn't think she was telling him anything either. I think he was just reinforcing that if you continue to open your heart, one day you will find love, whether or not it's with Booth. They aren't ready to date yet.

But in light of what Gordon Gordon says in Mayhem it's not that simple is it? If Brennan is the one who's aware of the attraction to Booth and is fighting her feelings for him every day then what we saw was a rare moment of weakness where Bren put her heart out there only to get it tossed aside like yesterday's trash. The only way it doesn't mean something for her is if it's Booth who's struggling and then Mayeh doesn't make sense as an episode. That's why El and I, and a few others, find his behaviour so douche-baggy in Princess.

RM

Here's the thing, we now know that Sweets definitely thinks that it's Brennan who is fighting her feelings for Booth. But we don't know yet who Gordon-Gordon was actually talking about, I have a feeling this is gonna come up again later in the season........JMO.

(Back to the OT , if Booth was aware that Brennan actually had feelings for him and then made that comment anyway...... yes it was a douchbag moment, I don't think that he's aware though.)

The episode that stands out for me as far as him being mean, etc to her is...I'm thinking it's 'Cinderella In The Cardboard'. While I liked it overall, there were a couple rude comments from him that just seemed mean and out of character. I mean, Booth calling Brennan "Doctor Burn In Hell"? Yeah. (It was that episode, right? Maybe not. )

Also, I don't really see the ILY as being a "douchey" moment. The clown thing should have tipped him off and maybe he shouldn't have said it, but that's what I think he added the "attagirl" at the end there. I mean, Brennan is persistent. She wanted to know. So, Booth told her, he figured he should just let it out there. Except then Brennan was kind of shocked and he probably remembered the conversations with Sweets and Cam, and recanted. Big time. Regardless, I don't seem him as being a jerk in that scene so much as trying to test the waters of what he really feels for her.

By the way....why exactly is this in the DB forum when it's a show topic? I'm not complaining, I'm just curious.

MoonlightGardenias wrote:The episode that stands out for me as far as him being mean, etc to her is...I'm thinking it's 'Cinderella In The Cardboard'. While I liked it overall, there were a couple rude comments from him that just seemed mean and out of character. I mean, Booth calling Brennan "Doctor Burn In Hell"? Yeah.

Lol, I loved that quote, what was wrong with it?

Also, I don't really see the ILY as being a "douchey" moment. The clown thing should have tipped him off and maybe he shouldn't have said it, but that's what I think he added the "attagirl" at the end there. I mean, Brennan is persistent. She wanted to know. So, Booth told her, he figured he should just let it out there. Except then Brennan was kind of shocked and he probably remembered the conversations with Sweets and Cam, and recanted. Big time.

I suppose it's up to interpretation. If I look at it from your perspective, where Booth told her how he felt because she wanted to know, and then remembered the advice Sweets' and Cam pounded into his head, and then tried to remedy it, then I agree, he wasn't being a douchebag.

But the way I saw it, Booth considered Cam's and Sweets' advice before he said "I love you". That little pause between Brennan's persistence and his confession, to me, seemed like he was weighing his options: To "put it out there", even though they might not be his true feelings? Or to wait, until at least Brennan believed he was back to normal (which she obviously did not believe: "I'm sure in a few weeks... you'll be back to normal"). To choose to "put it out there", regardless of how sure he was of himself, was a bit douchey =P I would think he'd rather keep the secret to himself until he was sure his feelings for her were real, especially after Cam's and Sweets' warnings. The "Atta girl" seemed like his reaction to her reaction, not a reaction to his mind's sudden memory of his friends' advice.

Regardless, I don't seem him as being a jerk in that scene so much as trying to test the waters of what he really feels for her.

That makes me sad If what you say is true, doesn't that mean he realised that maybe his feelings weren't genuine, seeing as he decided to take back what he'd said?

sera wrote:

MoonlightGardenias wrote:The episode that stands out for me as far as him being mean, etc to her is...I'm thinking it's 'Cinderella In The Cardboard'. While I liked it overall, there were a couple rude comments from him that just seemed mean and out of character. I mean, Booth calling Brennan "Doctor Burn In Hell"? Yeah.

Lol, I loved that quote, what was wrong with it?

Well as a practicing Catholic who could easily have refuted the attacks on the shroud of Turin (much of the debunking itself was debunked when it came to light that the C14 tests were conducted on the parts of the shroud that had been repaired and were chemically unlike the main body of the cloth), I found his calling her "Dr Burn in Hell" to be mean. They don't agree on religion, it's noted (Jesus was a Zombie? Puhleeze), but her beliefs are her beliefs. He demands that she respect his but feels free to piss all over hers? Douchebag.

Also, I don't really see the ILY as being a "douchey" moment. The clown thing should have tipped him off and maybe he shouldn't have said it, but that's what I think he added the "atta girl" at the end there. I mean, Brennan is persistent. She wanted to know. So, Booth told her, he figured he should just let it out there. Except then Brennan was kind of shocked and he probably remembered the conversations with Sweets and Cam, and recanted. Big time.

I suppose it's up to interpretation. If I look at it from your perspective, where Booth told her how he felt because she wanted to know, and then remembered the advice Sweets' and Cam pounded into his head, and then tried to remedy it, then I agree, he wasn't being a douchebag.

I'd concur, if that were the case then no, not a douchebag.

But the way I saw it, Booth considered Cam's and Sweets' advice before he said "I love you". That little pause between Brennan's persistence and his confession, to me, seemed like he was weighing his options: To "put it out there", even though they might not be his true feelings? Or to wait, until at least Brennan believed he was back to normal (which she obviously did not believe: "I'm sure in a few weeks... you'll be back to normal"). To choose to "put it out there", regardless of how sure he was of himself, was a bit douchey =P I would think he'd rather keep the secret to himself until he was sure his feelings for her were real, especially after Cam's and Sweets' warnings. The "Atta girl" seemed like his reaction to her reaction, not a reaction to his mind's sudden memory of his friends' advice.

I agree, sort of kinda in a way. I think he walked away from Cam and Sweets thinking different things and his reaction was based on how much stock he puts in their opinions of himself. I believe he walked away from Cam thinking "I do love her, it's not just the coma, it's not just the dream, if Cam remembers me being in love with her then it's real." While he walked away from Sweets thinking "I love her, but it might not be real, it could just be a dream or the effects of the coma."

So when he talked to her on the street he was clearly thinking of Cam's advice, having discounted Sweets theory, and he told her he loved her - it was genuine. But when Brennan hesitated he started thinking about what Sweets said, and the clown, and how he still feels like he's not quite himself, and he tossed in the "Atta girl" comment NOT because he doubts himself but because he didn't want to hurt her if he was wrong and Sweets was right.

Regardless, I don't seem him as being a jerk in that scene so much as trying to test the waters of what he really feels for her.

That makes me sad If what you say is true, doesn't that mean he realized that maybe his feelings weren't genuine, seeing as he decided to take back what he'd said?

That would be my interpretation IF he was actually just testing the waters. I don't think that Booth in any form would be that hesitant. He'd be trepidatious in the run-up but once out there he'd commit to the moment, that's his style. However if he was just testing the waters then that was being a major douchebag because Brennan isn't built like that and he knows it, so he would be extremely selfish to do that to her.

I'll stick with my theory that he was only an incidental douchebag in the ILY scene because the real douchebag (Sweets) manipulated him into being that way.

RM

RGPageantqueen wrote:

moonlightbones wrote:The only time I've not liked Booth is when Jared is around. His brother brings out the worst in him and everyone else around him so that's the only time I've ever had a problem with Booth. Otherwise Brennan has been the one I find myself wanting to smack. LOL

Why? I mean nothing says D-bag, like having your beautiful yet slightly social awkward partner pour her heart out to you which is a rarity for her, only for him to say, "you will someday?" she should have smacked him with that liquor bottle.

God forbid the man should be afraid to take the next step and risk everything they have together. Brennan is the more direct of the two...if she wanted to say something then, she would have. Booth was being supportive, as usual. And I think we see in this season that he still hadn't admitted to himself what he was feeling for her, so of course he couldn't say anything more. I loved the scene...though of course the hopeless romantic in me wanted more, it wouldn't have been quite in character, in my opinion.

Just as a notice for anybody saying to themselves "This was in the DB thread!" You are soo right, but you're really talking about the show, so ... it's now in the Show Discussion forum.

God forbid the man should be afraid to take the next step and risk everything they have together. Brennan is the more direct of the two...if she wanted to say something then, she would have. Booth was being supportive, as usual. And I think we see in this season that he still hadn't admitted to himself what he was feeling for her, so of course he couldn't say anything more. I loved the scene...though of course the hopeless romantic in me wanted more, it wouldn't have been quite in character, in my opinion.

See, I'm...kind of like this right now? I didn't love the scene, because well...*random clown comes out of nowhere and totally kills the moment*. As far as Booth and what was running through his head, I don't really know. I think it all kinda goes back to the Sweets/Gordon Gordon conversation about there only being one of them who knows they're in love, etc. I didn't think it was Brennan to begin with, but considering Booth's scans and the conversations they have been having I'm not too sure.

I DO think he loves her, but maybe until now hasn't really been able to admit it to himself. But that's not the point of this thread, is it? Do I really see him as being a jerk or "douchey" in this scene? No, not really. I think right now he's confused about his feelings, and so maybe he shouldn't have voiced how he felt out loud--and then proceeded to cover it up--if he was still trying to figure whether those feelings were real. But again, that's just in my opinion.

[quote="MoonlightGardenias"]

maybe he shouldn't have voiced how he felt out loud--and then proceeded to cover it up--if he was still trying to figure whether those feelings were real. But again, that's just in my opinion.

That's what makes him a jerk in my book =P Any other guy would be fine, but I have high expectations of Booth, and that little manouvre was a specifically Booth-Jerk moment.

THX1138 wrote:Well as a practicing Catholic who could easily have refuted the attacks on the shroud of Turin (much of the debunking itself was debunked when it came to light that the C14 tests were conducted on the parts of the shroud that had been repaired and were chemically unlike the main body of the cloth), I found his calling her "Dr Burn in Hell" to be mean. They don't agree on religion, it's noted (Jesus was a Zombie? Puhleeze), but her beliefs are her beliefs. He demands that she respect his but feels free to piss all over hers? Douchebag.

I think coming from him, a practicing Catholic, it wasn't mean. If she were religious and he'd called her that, he would've been a douchebag. In my opinion, it was more of a piss on his beliefs, not hers, and I loved that it came from Booth. He might be Catholic, but he's not bogged down by it.

MoonlightGardenias wrote:

God forbid the man should be afraid to take the next step and risk everything they have together. Brennan is the more direct of the two...if she wanted to say something then, she would have. Booth was being supportive, as usual. And I think we see in this season that he still hadn't admitted to himself what he was feeling for her, so of course he couldn't say anything more. I loved the scene...though of course the hopeless romantic in me wanted more, it wouldn't have been quite in character, in my opinion.

See, I'm...kind of like this right now? I didn't love the scene, because well...*random clown comes out of nowhere and totally kills the moment*. As far as Booth and what was running through his head, I don't really know. I think it all kinda goes back to the Sweets/Gordon Gordon conversation about there only being one of them who knows they're in love, etc. I didn't think it was Brennan to begin with, but considering Booth's scans and the conversations they have been having I'm not too sure.

I DO think he loves her, but maybe until now hasn't really been able to admit it to himself. But that's not the point of this thread, is it? Do I really see him as being a jerk or "douchey" in this scene? No, not really. I think right now he's confused about his feelings, and so maybe he shouldn't have voiced how he felt out loud--and then proceeded to cover it up--if he was still trying to figure whether those feelings were real. But again, that's just in my opinion.

I agree with the clown ruining the scene, I think it shows though the symbolism of what Sweets was saying about his brain is still on his come "love" state and that the love isn't real. However, I think what Harmonia said is more on the ball, "They know your brain but they don't know your heart." I don't think he was being a douche because the clown event more solidified what Sweets said and sweets, along with Cam told him not to say anything unless he knows for sure he's in love with her because of her fragile state, so he covered it up with the "atta girl" comment. that wasn't douche-y.

But the original scene I mentioned, where she was in her own way telling him she was in love with him and brushed it off like yeah one day you'll find that love. I mean she had that love but like everything else thats important to her he up and left her for the seven seas, thats pretty shitty and for someone like her to fall in love and watch that love like everyone else leave her it just makes her add another layer to her wall.

Now, I'm sorry, you kind of lost me on the catholicism talk. =[

dawnsfire wrote:[color=indigo]Even if he didn't mean it, Brennan is the kind to take things literally.
See, the thing is, she knows enough of conventional religious practices to know who's supposed to end up in Hell--the worst of the worst. And if her partner and best friend thinks that's her destination...of course it's going to hurt!
I will admit she did say to him once (Priest/Churchyard) "Can’t you just be satisfied that if I’m wrong about God, I’ll burn in hell?" and he says it would be tempting. But that's her saying it, if you see what I mean.

Haha, I feel the complete opposite Brennan's comment was more offensive than Booth's in my opinion. It's his territory to make fun of, not hers. (Much like if someone were to insult your sister for example. You would take offense, but you have no problem insulting your sister yourself because she's yours.) She knew he was being stupid. For her to say "Can’t you just be satisfied that if I’m wrong about God, I’ll burn in hell?", she was trivialising his religion, which could be seen as offensive. Booth was pretty much showing that he can loosen up about his religion, and I'm glad they showed that aspect of him. His reaction to the "Jesus was a zombie" comment was hilarious, I'd never thought of it that way. I love the way this show handles the subject of religion. It's a serious thing, but people shouldn't have to walk on egg shells when discussing it. Brennan and Booth aren't afraid to argue about it, but they never get aggressive, which is what a good discussion is all about.

dawnsfire wrote:If not mean, it was judgmental and uncalled for. At best, uncensored or a poorly thought-out joke. Even if he didn't mean it, Brennan is the kind to take things literally.
See, the thing is, she knows enough of conventional religious practices to know who's supposed to end up in Hell--the worst of the worst. And if her partner and best friend thinks that's her destination...of course it's going to hurt!
I will admit she did say to him once (Priest/Churchyard) "Can’t you just be satisfied that if I’m wrong about God, I’ll burn in hell?" and he says it would be tempting. But that's her saying it, if you see what I mean.

I agree 100% with my Queen and this is why I took offense to Booth's comment. He knows what he's saying and so does she, so it's got to hurt to hear from the one person who's opinion matters most to you that you're going to burn in hell. Wow, what a prince of a guy.

As for being bogged down in his Catholicism (I'm one, too), sometimes he can be, but not always (cool with his lesbian aunt, for example). People do get hung up on the most unexpected things.

True enough. Erika and I once had a lengthy discussion about this and as a practicing and devout Catholic myself I hold that Booth would be what I consider to be an enlightened devout Catholic. One who accepts the Church's teachings on most every issue but has come to reconcile his personal beliefs and his religious beliefs with the world at large by finding the answer within his faith instead of outside of it.

A perfect example is the minister who underwent a sex change. Though Church teachings are somewhat ill defined they are largely interpreted as anti-sex change surgery and yet Booth finds the admonition to love the sinner (in the Catholic faith we are all sinners) and hate the sin as a means of accepting the real life issues that minister Patricia was facing when she made her decision. His comments that we seek redemption through transformation and that "God does not give us more than we can handle" offer us keen insight into his understanding of his faith which is, I must say, more evolved and complex than he is often credited for. It's one of the reasons I consider his character to be a break-through Catholic on TV - he's not a one dimensional cardboard Catholic nor is he a liberal cafeteria Catholic, his beliefs and how he struggles to hold onto his faith in the face of the world he sees are very real. It's also one of the reasons Brennan's assaults on his faith rankle me so, and why I am so unforgiving when the writers decide to abandon the subtlety of Booth the devout Catholic for the cheap laughs of Booth the choir boy.

RM

My Queen is correct. PitC is indeed the last time Brennan took a real shot at Booth's religious beliefs, and she was exceptionally patient with the fundamentalist during Mummy because, and I loved this because it was so Brennan, he was consistent in his belief system. What she really hates is inconsistency and hypocrisy.