Hart Hanson on Internet fans

by bugaboo628 Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:18 pm

I am wondering what you all think of Hart's comment on Internet fans (from GMMR interview).

But some people are pissed off. At what point is getting that angry reaction doing more damage than good?

HH: Here’s the other thing that’s really hard to remember: the internet people are not the voice of the 10 million fans of BONES. They are a very small, vocal, passionate, fanatics. So they have reactions that don’t match the reactions of just the “normal” TV viewer. And unfortunately, I can’t be swayed by the people who love — and hate — the show most. We get a lot of input that isn’t from the internet. We have market research and the marketing people, the promos people. So I have to not listen to the [internet] people, just because they shout the loudest.

by RubyRuby Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:27 pm

Thanks for posting.

He's nearly always been like that. But just becasue the 'normal' TV viewer doesn't come on line to express their views, doesn't mean they aren't passionate.

by bones fan 99 Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:36 pm

I hate his comment yet, he's mostly right. My husband is a big bones fan yet he's not so concerned with telling HH he's pissed meanwhile I had to tweet him right after the finale. However I do think we as internet fans fairly represent what others are thinking, we keep watching even when we dislike some arcs where as 'the average viewer' is just going to not watch and they won't know why... except for maybe that research department if it does it's job properly!

by joybrennan Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:40 pm

You know that scene in the season one Christmas ep where all the squints are theorizing ways to figure out who everyone secret Santa is? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW. They are missing the obvious. Their own ratings show the highest numbers when they seemed to be moving towards getting together - midseason. In an 8 show arch they lost an average of 1 MILLION viewers compared the the numbers before that arch - the one where BB were pushed apart AGAIN. And both the beginning of the season and the end of the season was competing with Survivor and new shows. I don't think the million viewers who dropped were ALL on the internet. Rolling Eyes

When those numbers dip, there are going to be a million excuses they are going to give themselves - none of them will be "because the audience didn't like the storyline," because according to our market research and promo people (the ones promoting the show as "A NEW LOVE COMES BETWEEN BRENNAN AND BOOTH" - like a frigging soap-opera) the audience LOVES this storyline, THIS is what they want to see. [Only admins are allowed to see this image]

Not to mention, we now can see that he's writing based on market research, not characters. Frankly, I think I'm done.

by RubyRuby Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:46 pm

Just wanted to add, that the bit about internet veiwers didn't piss me off, but the rest of that interview.... shoot

by crzy4bones Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:55 pm

ok...FYI...it's a story ARC not arch....picky I know but it's been bugging for many many weeks...LOL!

HH hit it right on the head...internet fans are NOT the "average viewer"...no matter what way anyone wants to spin it, no matter how many stories we tell about our family, friends and co-workers who we consider "average" fans. Those marketing folks get paid alot of money to determine what those average fans want...sure, some of them aren't going to like Hannah and that storyline....but even the internet fans differ in their opinions about the storyline. Not everyone on here hates it, not everyone on the official board hates it. I hate being lumped into the "internet" fan group because it's becoming to where being labeled an "internet fan" is a bad thing...that they are whiney, loudmouth, snotty, rude people who harass showrunners when the storyline isn't written exactly the way they want it.

And hate to burst your bubble, but there isn't a single show on network tv (and probably on cable either) that isn't being written and produced based on market research to some extent....so I guess you have to be like Brennan and not watch TV.

by recoveringbonesaddict Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:03 pm

joybrennan wrote:You know that scene in the season one Christmas ep where all the squints are theorizing ways to figure out who everyone secret Santa is? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW. They are missing the obvious. Their own ratings show the highest numbers when they seemed to be moving towards getting together - midseason. In an 8 show arch they lost an average of 1 MILLION viewers compared the the numbers before that arch - the one where BB were pushed apart AGAIN. And both the beginning of the season and the end of the season was competing with Survivor and new shows. I don't think the million viewers who dropped were ALL on the internet. When those numbers dip, there are going to be a million excuses they are going to give themselves - none of them will be "because the audience didn't like the storyline," because according to our market research and promo people (the ones promoting the show as "A NEW LOVE COMES BETWEEN BRENNAN AND BOOTH" - like a frigging soap-opera) the audience LOVES this storyline, THIS is what they want to see. [Only admins are allowed to see this image]

Not to mention, we now can see that he's writing based on market research, not characters. Frankly, I think I'm done.

We will see who's right next week and the weeks thereafter. Ratings will tell the tale, and I'm betting us vocal internet fans will be proven right.

The excuse of the early airing of episodes in Canada is no longer in play, but I'm sure HH will blame the competition (BBT) for any decline. I can't wait..

by joybrennan Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:46 pm

crzy4bones wrote:ok...FYI...it's a story ARC not arch....picky I know but it's been bugging for many many weeks...LOL!

HH hit it right on the head...internet fans are NOT the "average viewer"...no matter what way anyone wants to spin it, no matter how many stories we tell about our family, friends and co-workers who we consider "average" fans. Those marketing folks get paid alot of money to determine what those average fans want...sure, some of them aren't going to like Hannah and that storyline....but even the internet fans differ in their opinions about the storyline. Not everyone on here hates it, not everyone on the official board hates it. I hate being lumped into the "internet" fan group because it's becoming to where being labeled an "internet fan" is a bad thing...that they are whiney, loudmouth, snotty, rude people who harass showrunners when the storyline isn't written exactly the way they want it.

And hate to burst your bubble, but there isn't a single show on network tv (and probably on cable either) that isn't being written and produced based on market research to some extent....so I guess you have to be like Brennan and not watch TV.

No bubble's been burst - I did market research for a cable network for a bit. Very Happy

. Granted they were more interested in seeing if a show was worth producing in the first place rather than show direction. My point was sometimes things that are simple are often made complicated. Their basic numbers say when there is logical progression, the numbers trend up, illogical u-turns the numbers trend down. That has nothing to do with internet fans.

Also, market research is just that - researching the taste of the audience you are trying to reach. It's possible they are trying to bring in the Jersey Shore crowd. Shocked

It can give you what certain demographics like, and specifics on reactions to a clip, actor, etc. It can't really tell you what an audience thinks over time. Truthfully, I think they get a better sense of their current audience that currently watch the the show by analyzing the various forums. I'd ignore the twitter comments, too random.

As for the current board, I wouldn't say everyone HATES this storyline, but only a few are absolutely thrilled about. What are we polling and discussing often; whether to watch or not.

Meanwhile, the networks tend to complain that cable can take more creative risks because it's subscriber based. After ten years of watching cable do creative, quirky, smart, scripted dramas, you would would think they'd let the creatives be creative...only the network creatives have worked this way for so long, they may have forgotten how.

Thanks for the spell-check - I knew it was wrong, just couldn't figure out how to fix it. Smile

by treble21 Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:27 pm

I'm not offended because HH is probably right, Internet fans are a very small part of the fan base. Does that mean they don't represent other fans? No.... but that's why they have the other types of research.

by MI_Bonesgirl Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:47 pm

Bottom line-showrunners look at ratings. People are pissed, but most are still watching. This board has been buzzing all summer about this storyline. Hart himself said he really doesn't care what people think as long as they are watching/talking about it. Buzz is good regardless of if it's positive or negative.
I don't think anyone here honestly expects the showrunners to change a storyline because we may not like it. It's just nice to have a place to vent frustrations with other people who understand.

by mommahurley Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:32 am

MI_Bonesgirl.... I couldn't agree more

A television show ... is a business... it employs hundreds of people who's lives depend on it... Not just actors, but directors, screenwriters, gaffers, extras, secretaries the list goes on and on.....

Hart walks a tightrope... He loves his show..his story..his characters...but he can't just play fast and loose with them...he has all these people depending on him....He tries to follow his vision for the show..but he's got to understand the effects that each decision will have on all the lives he provides income for.

If he were simply writing a book, or a fan fiction, he could go any direction hs wants...but he's got to do not only what's right for the show...what's right for his characters..but what is right for keeping the show on the air.

Talking about ratings...I know that someone did a very good analysis of their take on the ratings of last season...but it was very skewed toward showing the idea they wanted to present.

Ratings going from 8 to 9 to 10 back to 9 million viewers...is a very slight change in the overall sceme of things... If I were doing a statistical analysis of these the results would fall in the range of Statistically Insignificant. Minor fluctuations. The highest numbers of the year came on special episodes only... premiers, first show back from a break, 100th episode, Finale. Anyway... that's been talked to death.

Hart said he uses many more accurate ways of predicting audience appeal, and I think that's wise of him.

We have some very vocal opinions on here..sometimes to the point where it takes over threads...but even on here, we don't agree... Our poll showed that most people are still going to watch it, almost 3/1 ratio ...

Bottom line. Wait and see. And realize that the shows you remember the longest, and enjoy the most are the ones that make you feel passionate... Good or bad, this show makes us passionate about our feelings toward it...and that can't be bad.

by joybrennan Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:46 am

it 's true about passion... but in terms of what one remembers the most, what I remember most about the X-files was how badly they messed it up. I don't want that to be my strongest memory of Bones. Neutral

by Lo Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:56 am

crzy4bones, I totally agree with you. And I'm not thriled with being grouped in that Internet group of fans. To me if I was Hart receiving tweets, letters whatever people are doing to contact Hart, it would feel like 3 million impossible to satisfy customers or bosses. Who the heck would wanna hear that? I feel like when I'm on these forums in here and other places people are always saying "well I'm going to tweet Hart about how he messed this up or how if he really wants to learn how to write a show take notes on such & such show... That is extremely insulting or at least it would be to me & and I'm pretty tolerant. Just how I feel.

I know people need to vent but I don't think that's the best way.

by Manjachka Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:17 am

I think he is right. Not everyone in the World is Hannah hater or B&B team

by the beaver1965 Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:42 am

Just a question that I hope somebody/anybody might be able to answer for me. If Hart Hanson thinks that the online Bones fans are so insignificant in the the big scheme of things, why then is he on TWITTER going back and forth with the fans? Just curious.

by bailey Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:47 am

Lo wrote:crzy4bones, I totally agree with you. And I'm not thriled with being grouped in that Internet group of fans. To me if I was Hart receiving tweets, letters whatever people are doing to contact Hart, it would feel like 3 million impossible to satisfy customers or bosses. Who the heck would wanna hear that? I feel like when I'm on these forums in here and other places people are always saying "well I'm going to tweet Hart about how he messed this up or how if he really wants to learn how to write a show take notes on such & such show... That is extremely insulting or at least it would be to me & and I'm pretty tolerant. Just how I feel.

I know people need to vent but I don't think that's the best way.

I know what you mean some of the things people say to Hart I'm pretty sure they'd never say to his face. But I think Hart gets that it's not all Internet fans who are rude. He's said in interviews before that there are crazy people on Twitter but most of them aren't. And he's tweeted that the nice people don't have to try and make up for the mean ones. Lol.

by crzy4bones Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:40 am

beaver...I don't think it's that HH thinks the internet fans are insignificant...just that he understands that the internet fans are the most passionate of his shows' fans but that they are a very small part of the viewership and he can't cater to their every wish just because they are the loudest.

by the beaver1965 Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:46 am

That makes sense. Thank You!!!

by joybrennan Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:55 am

mommahurley wrote:

Ratings going from 8 to 9 to 10 back to 9 million viewers...is a very slight change in the overall sceme of things... If I were doing a statistical analysis of these the results would fall in the range of Statistically Insignificant. Minor fluctuations.

And that is why the numbers alone can't show the full story. Without looking to see what those "minor fluctuations" are attached to, and seeing if there is a pattern in those fluctuations and the attached incidents, well...that's how you can miss the coming of a tsunami. Shocked

by elyon Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:40 am

Personally I think that the higher ratings that Hart and Emily keep harping on about for last season were because viewers thought B&B would get together. Now that we know Hannah is coming and that B&B isn't going to happen, at least for the first half of the season, it will be interesting to see what the ratings do.

by dawnsfire Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:59 pm

crzy4bones wrote:And hate to burst your bubble, but there isn't a single show on network tv (and probably on cable either) that isn't being written and produced based on market research to some extent....so I guess you have to be like Brennan and not watch TV.

Already there! I only watch 2 shows (which means I watched next to nothing this summer): Bones & Fringe. And believe you me, if either of them stopped engaging my interest or went so bad (admittedly a very subjective judgement) that I couldn't stand to watch any more, that would be one more free hour in my life!

As for being lumped into a monolithic group--well, I've never liked that. I often find I am pretty different from what "the group" is supposed to feel as a whole, whether that be gender, religious, generation, race, etc... Rolling Eyes

Just more of the same BS, different day, that's all.

queen

by mommahurley Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:02 am

I think that Hart does most of his Tweeting to his other friends in the business...he almost always posts compliments to his friends and associates...he's clever, and glib..and he has a huge capacity to be fair and openminded...he's never rude...he doesn't issue challenges to people or insults...he's a good guy... he has family, friends a life other than Bones, and that's what he talks about on Twitter at least 50% of the time. It's insulting to insinuate that he's only there for our enjoyment suggesting he shouldn't be on Twitter unless he wants to get attacked. That's like saying women deserve to be harrassed if they're pretty and wear sexy clothing.

In return he gets a lot of positive reinforcement from friends, and associates...and he gets a lot of over the top rude comments, taunts and slurs...threats...dire warnings...and just plain rudeness from over the top negative fans. In return he has a sense of humor and he answers those people often... I've been there too once or twice...I tweeted him a very emotional, and not very diplomatic, response within seconds of the Finale...then felt bad about it, and wrote him a nice appology...he responded to my appology,,, something to the effect...It's nice to have fans that care enough to have a viceral reaction...I don't take it personally. Without our noisy fans we wouldn't be as successful as we are . That was when I began to have a change of heart...it's not right to attack someone! PEriod. Not on here...not on twitter...not the showrunner...never!

It's just too bad if you don't like the direction of the show! I once asked him if he was getting pressure to go against his vision by the studio execs...he answered. "Everone seems to want to believe the network is the evil puppet master...But I am responsible for all my own mistakes big and small".... "SN gets the credit for all the successes, we compliment eachother that way" lol.

I'm sorry if people don't like the storyline and are going to cut off their own noses to spite their faces...because they may be missing something that they would have enjoyed...however...I find their threats and arguments disingenuous. They may believe their claims...but they can't even go three posts without restating their opinions, so they are clearly heavily involved...they will be writing...and continuing to post their views...and I guarantee you they will be watching...they might not admit it. But why would they be as involved commenting ravenously...debating every issue to the point of redundency if they really weren't going to stick with the show?

Just like politics...when you're a noisy group, you sometimes convince yourself that you represent the majority...but there's nothing really to suggest that is true.... we're just the noisiest! Most people do what they like, watch what they like..try new things..and stop watching things, without ever uttering a single Cyber word. We are a very small sample group that is not even a random sample...it is insignificant from a statistical point of view. We probably do represent a small hint of what others are feeling...yet, we also don't agree to any large degree with either point of view. We all have our own ways of looking at it, and our own varying reactions and amounts of displeasure.

This is the point Hart is making when he says, as long as their talking about it...it's good. I believe he knows what he's talking about.

by joybrennan Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:30 am

MOD WARNING

Please keep comments and spectulation to the show and its components - not other posters. Thanks!

by tinkrella Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:04 am

I agree mommahurley.

Hart is on twitter for his own personal reasons and none of them include wanting to be attacked by fans. There is a difference between attacking and giving him an opinion. It's great that he realizes that internet fans are not the entire fan base. It's the truth. It means he listens to market research, listens to ratings, and follows his own judgement instead of letting 10 thousand fans (or however many) online fans steer the ship.

He IS the Captain. Whether I like it or not. I can hate the storylines. I can yell and scream and throw a fit and at the end of the day, it wont matter because it's his show. It's not mine. I don't write it. I don't own it and I can't expect it to be what I want it to be. I came to that conclusion at the end of last season and it really helped me just get over my perception that Hart owed me something. He doesn't owe me anything. I watch it for my own enjoyment, not because I want to collect up at the end of the season and say "well....i spent all this time watching your show. Now you owe me to make it what I want." Entertainment doesn't work that way.

I'm glad that hart has stayed on twitter and gives us insights into the show and tidbits about how it is done. That's the best part for me. I asked him a question about a filming thing and he answered me. Sure, I could have looked it up on wikipedia....but it meant more that he actually cared enough to answer.

by joybrennan Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:36 am

I

tinkrella wrote:

Hart is on twitter for his own personal reasons and none of them include wanting to be attacked by fans. There is a difference between attacking and giving him an opinion. It's great that he realizes that internet fans are not the entire fan base. It's the truth. It means he listens to market research, listens to ratings, and follows his own judgement instead of letting 10 thousand fans (or however many) online fans steer the ship.

He IS the Captain. Whether I like it or not. I can hate the storylines. I can yell and scream and throw a fit and at the end of the day, it wont matter because it's his show. It's not mine. I don't write it. I don't own it and I can't expect it to be what I want it to be. I came to that conclusion at the end of last season and it really helped me just get over my perception that Hart owed me something. He doesn't owe me anything. I watch it for my own enjoyment, not because I want to collect up at the end of the season and say "well....i spent all this time watching your show. Now you owe me to make it what I want." Entertainment doesn't work that way.

I'm glad that hart has stayed on twitter and gives us insights into the show and tidbits about how it is done. That's the best part for me. I asked him a question about a filming thing and he answered me. Sure, I could have looked it up on wikipedia....but it meant more that he actually cared enough to answer.

I actually do agree with this. I may not like what's happening and think it's a mistake that is going to backfire, but I certainly don't think HH owes fans anything. I think the majority of fans who tweet him are probably benign, a few needle him a bit when they don't like stuff, and then there are the ones who are really mean and nasty. I don't tweet much in general, so most of the really out-of-line stuff I hear about on the forum.

Things like twitter and facebook have changed some things - for better and worse. It's better in that shows can get some direct feedback on what the audience thinks. In theatre, a writer/director can sit in back of the show and SEE where the audience reacts and how. That's why before bringing it to Broadway a show will tour other places: to see how audiences are receiving things whether stuff has to be changed or tweaked. While ratings show if people watched or not, it doesn't tell what about a show was really liked or why someone turned the chanel. Twitter does something similar, although because of the vast numbers and the nature of tv it's only a small snapshot of opinion. Likewise, in the old days there were those people who would boo and throw stuff if they didn't like a show - today, showrunner's may get some nasty tweets.

I personally don't think saying or tweeting you don't like a story direction is wrong. Just be polite about it. Doing so doesn't mean a fan thinks HH owes them something or expects him to them just change things. However, if you don't know which way the wind is blowing, you can't adjust your sail. You then either get stalled, capsized, or at worst dashed against some rocks. When you are writing for a mass audience and want them to keep watching, it helps, I think, to have as many means available to see what they are thinking. A couple of angry tweets is one thing, a steady stream of tweets from DIFFERENT people, all about the same issue? That's information.

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