Re: 5x17 The Death of the Queen Bee ~ SHOW DISCUSSION

by anteater Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:09 pm

catfisheatingnow wrote: I am just not feeling the love... It took me 2 days to watch this episode...It is getting painful. Kind of done with the little speeches @ the END.
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by DONEWITHIT Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:15 pm

anteater wrote:
catfisheatingnow wrote: I am just not feeling the love... It took me 2 days to watch this episode...It is getting painful. Kind of done with the little speeches @ the END.
I am a lurker compelled to leave anonymity for obvious reasons (HH & Co.)

Welcome to the ABY!

THANK YOU!!! cheers

by 192630 Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:30 pm

I did not like the episode. I thought it was sad. I was sad for Brennan and pissed at her at the same time. Booth was sort of mean to her. She deserves that, but still. Brennan speech at the end about 'friends' was nice. I wish at times they would not make Brennan appear so clueless. It's like everyone knows what's going on but her. It's getting old.

by Ankuuh Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:49 pm

I felt like crying during this episode maybe even more than last weeks. Brennan being clueless about like everything. Booth being mean to hear because he just can't deal with what happens (which I get but you know, you decided to work with her so deal with it.) I mean, she wanted to hit that girl ? Are you kidding me ? All in all, it just left me with a bad taste in my mouth and a different view on what to come.

The woman who killed them totally was coockoo. Waaayyy to cheery to even be benine lol.

Loved the friend speech now and Wendell kind of saying to Hodgins when he was telling him that they broke up that he did his best for her and for him. He just knew all along how it would play out, or might play out.

by SnoopGirl Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:36 pm

192630 wrote:I did not like the episode. I thought it was sad. I was sad for Brennan and pissed at her at the same time. Booth was sort of mean to her. She deserves that, but still. Brennan speech at the end about 'friends' was nice. I wish at times they would not make Brennan appear so clueless. It's like everyone knows what's going on but her. It's getting old.

How was Booth mean to her? confused

Brennan was mean to Booth when she said "Is this too difficult for you?" She made him CRY (in the previous episode!) Yeah, it might still be a little difficult for him especially when Brennan doesn't have a clue as to what she wants!
And I totally agree with Brennan's carelessness. OLD and boring. Sleep

It is like her comments are just tossed in there and are SO out of place they stick out like a sore thumb.

by otismotis Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:16 am

I agree with SnoopGirl, how was Booth mean. He agreed to go undercover as her husband, which was Sweets idea. He corrected her a couple of times, lovingly, I thought. I did not see any real awkwardness between them, except for the dancing at first. Continuity, I didn't think she went to high school in Maryland.

Yes, she does seem totally clueless, but she is at her high school reunion.....since she was not liked in high school, considered weird etc, she still felt the animosity (sp) from her classmates, therefore the bluntness. I liked the episode overall.

by i_heart_bones Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:30 am

Great episode!
I actually felt sorry for Brennan in a sense, having everyone call her weirdo and whatnot I wanted someone to jump in and defend her Sad

(But the end made up for it)

B&B dancing was so sweet, the looks on both their faces Smile

Must have been hard for Booth though...

Really did love the end scene, it's so nice seeing them all together like that!

AND HODGELA! It's nice that finally other people are noticing these two are obviously supposed to be together!

by THX1138 Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:19 am

SnoopGirl wrote:
192630 wrote:I did not like the episode. I thought it was sad. I was sad for Brennan and pissed at her at the same time. Booth was sort of mean to her. She deserves that, but still. Brennan speech at the end about 'friends' was nice. I wish at times they would not make Brennan appear so clueless. It's like everyone knows what's going on but her. It's getting old.
How was Booth mean to her? Brennan was mean to Booth when she said "Is this too difficult for you?" She made him CRY (in the previous episode!) Yeah, it might still be a little difficult for him especially when Brennan doesn't have a clue as to what she wants!

It took me three watchings of the episode to fully grasp the changes in Booth's interaction with her but it starts with body language. I noticed right off that he's not looking at her like he used to, the affection is gone in most of his looks. Instead he's clinical, reactive. That's what tipped me off that there was a shift, and it was very subtle and well done by DB. When it became obvious to me was when Booth played junior psychologist with her - can you honestly say he'd have said what he said about her "marginal social standing" directly to her in that almost condescending tone a week before? No way. Listen again to how he "teases" her, there's no affection in his voice, it's glee - he's putting her down for his benefit, not making light of things for hers.

This week was Booth letting out his hurt and anger in little, petty, passive-aggressive ways. Wouldn't surprise me if next week he lets her pay for lunch. He's letting her know that things are different now, their special connection isn't, not anymore, and his being rather un-Boothy in the process.

And I totally agree with Brennan's carelessness. OLD and boring. It is like her comments are just tossed in there and are SO out of place they stick out like a sore thumb.

To me that was natural though, not that she's clueless, but that she desperately wants it all to be just as it was and she can feel it's not, so she asks clueless questions on purpose, trying to get that banter going again. Can't you see the crestfallen look on her face when he grudgingly ascents to her request instead of bickering with her and pulling her into his arms the way she expects? When he initially insists on keeping space between them, you can see Brennan's face fall - confirmation of her worst fears that she's hurt them, and not just the individual units of the equation (she knows that well enough), but she's hurt their dynamic now and for once Booth isn't trying to fix things.

king

RM

by MoonlightGardenias Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:35 am

Yeah, I think I just sort of felt sad in general last night because that dynamic isn't there now and it's obvious enough for Brennan to catch on. I did feel bad for her simply because she had a hard enough time during her high school years as it was because of her parents leaving and everything and it was made even worse by the ones who picked on her and just avoided her at all costs.

The dancing was what sort of hurt the most though. I do LOVE the fact that unlike in previous "big discussions" past they aren't just brushing past this moment like it never happened. I know Brennan seemed a little insensitive when she asked him if dancing would be difficult for him but at the same time at least she's not completely oblivious to the fact his behavior around her isn't completely the same as it was before. He's doing what she wants, but at a price, because if he has to keep his distance emotionally speaking he has to do so physically as well.

Which is what I noted at the end. Usually when they're all out together Booth and Brennan are seperate from the rest of the group or at the least close to each other when they're all gathered around. Even though he wasn't that far away there was still a gap between them and I think she noticed that.

Oh, and the rings. Not to mention the fact he said he was her husband in the first place. Even when they were Buck and Wanda they didn't wear rings so I'm a bit disappointed we didn't get to see them putting those on (or off, because that would've been an awkwardly sad moment to see), but it's interesting that they wore them in the first place.

by tinkrella Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:53 am

I don't see the booth putting her down at all. I dunno i mean I watched it twice and didn't see that. I deff did see him being hesitant/awkward/weird body language. You could tell he was being less then his normal self but he was very caring and concerned when she was tearing up during the dancing and later when they were roaming through the dark halls and that creeper popped out of no where.

He seemed excited when sweets mentioned they go undercover.

by tinkrella Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:56 am

p.s. I didn't like the fluger stuff AT ALL. brennan made it seem that she was the one into him in earlier episodes....and that he hurt her....i thought he would be some hot/great guy.

by THX1138 Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:03 am

tinkrella wrote:I don't see the booth putting her down at all. I dunno i mean I watched it twice and didn't see that. I deff did see him being hesitant/awkward/weird body language. You could tell he was being less then his normal self but he was very caring and concerned when she was tearing up during the dancing and later when they were roaming through the dark halls and that creeper popped out of no where.

He seemed excited when sweets mentioned they go undercover.

Watch the interaction between them when he starts psychoanalyzing her - heck, let's just start with the fact that they both hate psychology and they both hate being psychoanalyzed, so for him to even do that is a slap at her, okay? And for him to do it in a manner that was obviously designed to make her uncomfortable was nothing less than mean. And yes, he was very caring and concerned when she was ready to cry - he does still love her, he is still Booth - but that really only serves to counterpoint how cold he was otherwise.

king

RM

by olivia Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:08 am

After skimming through this whole thread, I have to respectfully disagree with many who did not like the pisode. I liked it VERY MUCH!

Regarding the Andy inconsistency, I think how she remembers things from high school are probably different from how they were. And also, she was angry at his regarding the smurf issue. I thought the contrast beween how ED played her reactions with the highschool folks and her reactions to her real friends was brilliant. She was just so uncomfortable.

And Booth was there, but had a very hard time coming to her "rescue" in this ep which really showed his internal struggle.

But I think my favorite part of the episode was Brennan trying to live a little high school with Booth. Do the things she never got to do, and when he conceded to dance with her, that was brilliant.

by THX1138 Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:51 am

olivia wrote:After skimming through this whole thread, I have to respectfully disagree with many who did not like the pisode. I liked it VERY MUCH!

I loved this episode too, I'm not sure why folks didn't.

Regarding the Andy inconsistency, I think how she remembers things from high school are probably different from how they were. And also, she was angry at his regarding the smurf issue. I thought the contrast beween how ED played her reactions with the highschool folks and her reactions to her real friends was brilliant. She was just so uncomfortable.

Sorry but I disagree. We're talking about a woman who's observational skill are reknowned and who doesn't lie. There's no way she'd "mis-remember" him being the Varsity Lacrosse captain, not when she recalls her lab partner with crystal clarity, or every embarassing thing that happened to Joyce, etc., or all her times with Mr Buxley. So if she's not wrong there, and I maintain that she's not, then the smurf issue has real impact - little Tempe, the outcast, Morticia, the brainiac freak, crushing on the Varsity Lacrosse captain. That gells, it makes sense given how traumatic her story about the smurf was. It also flies in the face of the man we saw last night. That Andy Pfleuger was never a Varsity Athlete and there's no way even Morticia would have been upset by someone like that - he was a bigger loser than her from the look of him. No, this was flat out bad casting and worse writing of the part. HH/SN screwed the pooch here going for comedic effect and they've done that on this show every time they go for the obvious joke. They're not good comedic writers, they're good at dry and situational humor, which is something else entirely.

And Booth was there, but had a very hard time coming to her "rescue" in this ep which really showed his internal struggle.

It was pretty clear from his body language that he wasn't comfortable getting too close to her, but when the tears came out he reverted to type.

But I think my favorite part of the episode was Brennan trying to live a little high school with Booth. Do the things she never got to do, and when he conceded to dance with her, that was brilliant.

Yep, I loved that too - it was very little girl lost of her. Cute too. Emily was amazing in this episode.

king

RM

by talkaboutbones Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:44 am

THX1138 wrote:That Andy Pfleuger was never a Varsity Athlete and there's no way even Morticia would have been upset by someone like that - he was a bigger loser than her from the look of him. No, this was flat out bad casting and worse writing of the part. HH/SN screwed the pooch here going for comedic effect and they've done that on this show every time they go for the obvious joke. They're not good comedic writers, they're good at dry and situational humor, which is something else entirely.

Thank you for saying my thoughts out loud. I hated how they scr**ed the Andy Pfleuger background story as I think it was an important issue and I was actually pretty excited when I read we'd see him in this epi. So I was extremely disappointed that they transformed the supposedly cool guy who rejected the geek Tempe into a creepy guy whom any woman would seriously avoid any contact with. I just don't see why they couldn't put another character in the story to play this type or make Andy the one women killed for. It would have made much more sense. Apart from the "Freddy Kreuger was my best friend ever" plot, this shed a very dark light on Brennan's past that I - for now at least - cannot really come to terms with. I have to watch this again a couple of times, I think, but still... headdesk

by MoonlightGardenias Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:48 am

Yeah, I was expecting Andy Fleuger to be some hot ex-jock that Booth would want (and possibly try) punching in the face. It was cool to put a face behind the name but it still seems a little disappointing.

by DONEWITHIT Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:03 am

THX1138 wrote:
tinkrella wrote:I don't see the booth putting her down at all. I dunno i mean I watched it twice and didn't see that. I deff did see him being hesitant/awkward/weird body language. You could tell he was being less then his normal self but he was very caring and concerned when she was tearing up during the dancing and later when they were roaming through the dark halls and that creeper popped out of no where.

He seemed excited when sweets mentioned they go undercover.
Watch the interaction between them when he starts psychoanalyzing her - heck, let's just start with the fact that they both hate psychology and they both hate being psychoanalyzed, so for him to even do that is a slap at her, okay? And for him to do it in a manner that was obviously designed to make her uncomfortable was nothing less than mean. And yes, he was very caring and concerned when she was ready to cry - he does still love her, he is still Booth - but that really only serves to counterpoint how cold he was otherwise.

RM

Completely agree. He was cold and uncaring. He was extremely critical of her but in a very detached way. Well, one can only hope that may "open Brenna's heart" , ha! Suspect

by talkaboutbones Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:34 pm

...If Andy had been the guy whom the girls killed for, it would have been pretty great that Brennan'd be the one helping to find the killer of his loved ones. I would have liked that twist after the smurf issue. And I would have loved the comparison between Andy and Booth... Oh why have I thought about this? Now it hurts even more how they sc****d it... shoot

by jcn747 Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:36 pm

i dont think Bones was mean in this episode. I mean she and Booth have danced before, many times, they have also gone undercover, and hello did anyone see Tony and Roxie!!! So cmon i think it was fare for Bones to ask that.

I also felt rly sad, every time someone made a comment about her i wanted to cry,and i really wanted Booth to maybe stand up for her a bit. Sad

I was so sad when she was getting the start and they were being mean to her, i really wanted someone to stand up for her. I dont rly think they were overly nice to each other, but i dont think they were unfairly mean either. I just think that they acrd how they should considering the previous episode. But yes i just felt sad after this episode too Sad

by jcn747 Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:39 pm

catfisheatingnow wrote:
THX1138 wrote:
tinkrella wrote:I don't see the booth putting her down at all. I dunno i mean I watched it twice and didn't see that. I deff did see him being hesitant/awkward/weird body language. You could tell he was being less then his normal self but he was very caring and concerned when she was tearing up during the dancing and later when they were roaming through the dark halls and that creeper popped out of no where.

He seemed excited when sweets mentioned they go undercover.
Watch the interaction between them when he starts psychoanalyzing her - heck, let's just start with the fact that they both hate psychology and they both hate being psychoanalyzed, so for him to even do that is a slap at her, okay? And for him to do it in a manner that was obviously designed to make her uncomfortable was nothing less than mean. And yes, he was very caring and concerned when she was ready to cry - he does still love her, he is still Booth - but that really only serves to counterpoint how cold he was otherwise.

RM
Completely agree. He was cold and uncaring. He was extremely critical of her but in a very detached way. Well, one can only hope that may "open Brenna's heart" , ha!

yes i agree too, but i dont think it was a mena thing, he kinda seemed exhausted like he was so sad he literally couldn't be nice.

by MI_Bonesgirl Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:29 am

Rewatching this one it kinda felt like B&B had just gone through a bad breakup. Not sure I like it if that's the way the rest of he season is gonna go. I have a few different theories floating around in my head for the rest of the season. The good thing is at this point I'm Not sure their relationship can get worse than what it is right now so I'm actually looking for positive things by the finale

by nati.cba Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:30 am

I loved that slow dance but this vid made me think it was even cuter and more perfect than what it was! forget the context and what happened in 100th and enjoy!

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

by AmandaFriend Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:46 am

My guess is that the idea is to have the two of them re-enact some of the animosity they felt after their first tryst didn't work out. Booth's body language and attitude toward Brennan is distant and a bit snippy. But that's expected-- he got shot down and he's not going back to square one with her. He's going to protect himself and try to move on.

Brennan is off-kilter because she's back in the land of torturous memories where her only real friend is a freaky janitor. She's also off because Booth is off with her. There's no real connection with him. Since she is emotionally stunted, she can't really grasp how to fix things. Usually it's up to Booth to make things better.

So at the dance, she's reaching for her friend, he's distancing himself from a rejection, and they are out of sync. Brennan's tearing up may be because it was the prom she missed, or it's the Booth she missed. Either way, if you look at their expressions, Booth eventually relaxes into the slow dance and it's a bittersweet moment for both of them. Brennan looks are also telling. She understands that it might be difficult for him. She also gives him a look that suggests she understands that she might be losing him-- he's not the same Booth. But you can't tell me that the two of them would hope they could have the bliss each feels in the final moment of the dance.

Part of these next few shows will probably mature Brennan's approach to Booth. It's going to be painful to watch.

Yes, the episode was a bit over the top, but it had some progression in how Booth and Brennan will cope with the aftermath of the rejection. A lot of it was subtle until we got to the dance.

I personally liked the whole Angela/Wendell/Hodgins storyline better. I like Brennan and Booth and want them to be together, but I want it to be realistic and not like cheesy fanfiction. I really liked how the A/W/H story went. It felt less awkward and campy.

by dawnsfire Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:17 pm

otismotis wrote:I agree with SnoopGirl, how was Booth mean. He agreed to go undercover as her husband, which was Sweets idea. He corrected her a couple of times, lovingly, I thought. I did not see any real awkwardness between them, except for the dancing at first. Continuity, I didn't think she went to high school in Maryland.

Yes, she does seem totally clueless, but she is at her high school reunion.....since she was not liked in high school, considered weird etc, she still felt the animosity (sp) from her classmates, therefore the bluntness. I liked the episode overall.

She didn't...she went in Illinois, in or near Chicago. They do say near the beginning that they flew out, though "where" is never specified. That's why they used the video cams.

I am given to understand high school reunions are difficult in any case, and it's very easy to fall back into the old behavior problems. Interesting that not much was actually made of her success in the real world, though she tried. Obviously only the janitor reads!

As or whether Booth was mean to her or not, I read it as he was trying to move on, distance himself. Maybe it's a little overkill? He's trying too hard?

queen

by katharine Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:38 am

nati.cba wrote:I loved that slow dance but this vid made me think it was even cuter and more perfect than what it was! forget the context and what happened in 100th and enjoy!

[Only admins are allowed to see this link]

This video reassures me much more that HH ever could. When watching the actual show I think you miss some of the expressions, but this video, maybe because of the song added, gives me hope. The look on Brennan's face says it all. That begging to dance, the content smile, the way she tilts her head into his shoulder, that's a woman in love. She just needs some jolts to tell her that her best friend won't be around much more if she doesn't open up her heart. She opened it for the lady who's son died in GitG when they all went to his funeral, remember "heart crushing". Now she needs to dig down deeper and open it for that hunky, soulful, gorgeous man in the blue FBI t shirt - WOW......

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